Try to keep all US election-posting here.
At first, i agreed with the explanations based on the lack of cohesion of the democratic party, and the influence of Palestine, on the votes :
With most votes counted, the 2024 election elected D.Trump with ~73M votes vs. ~68M for K.Harris, compared to 2020 when D.Trump was rejected despite having the same numbers(, 74.2M,) and J.Biden was elected with 81.3M votes.
Furthermore, D.Trump would have received less votes without influent people like Robert Kennedy Jr. on his side, who still received votes apparently.
However, third parties like the libertarian party or the Green party received much more votes in 2016 than in 2024(, and the republican&democratic parties much less). Having gained 1M votes at most wouldn’t have that much of an impact.
(I’ve also sometimes heard(, mostly twitter, but here’s msnbc,) that the 2.5M muslim-americans voted D.Trump in opposition but that’s not supported(source), even if J.Stein should have obtained much more if these surveys were trustworthy).
While i can’t deny the influence of many pro-Palestine actors, i can’t really prove it by the numbers either, and some deny its importance. Also, the high voter turnout doesn’t favor the alternative of a boycott.
I only took a superficial look, so i don’t doubt that there’re many americans here who could easily correct my mistakes if they want toPeople didn’t feel like voting for Kamala, so instead of voting for Trump they stayed home.
Ideally, stats by categories would be more useful to draw a conclusion, but at first sight it doesn’t seem so though :
It says those are expected vote totals for states where less than 97 percent of the vote has been counted. Trump is gonna end up with some 73.000.000 votes, while Kamala has 68.000.000 right now, Biden received 81.200.000 in 2020. That’s 14 million fewer votes overall than in 2020. That sounds to me like a lot of Dem voters didn’t show up.
It says those are expected vote totals for states where less than 97 percent of the vote has been counted
We may have understood it the same way, yet just to be sure : The turnout is counted normally, except for states where less than 97% of the votes are counted, in which case the reported turnout has been replaced by the expected turnout.
That sounds to me like a lot of Dem voters didn’t show up
You’re right, if they didn’t voted for third parties, if the votes are mostly counted, if the voter turnout is the same, and if republicans didn’t received more votes than in 2020, then where did these 14M votes went ?
Thanks for confirming that i’m missing something, don’t know if you or someone here have the explanation.Well, they haven’t counted all the votes yet, but it seems that 158.000.000 total votes were cast according to an analyst from UFL, who gets info from the bureau of elections or whatever. If Trump has 73M and Kamala has 68M votes, some 2.4M have voted third party. I guess that means there are still some 14.5 million votes to be counted.
Which seems like a lot, doesn’t it? I don’t know what’s going on, perhaps we’re making some error somewhere.
If they were votes for third parties, then they would have shown up by now.
I’ve done what I feel is a pretty good job ignoring US election (canadian here), but the liberal head loss over this I sadly cannot ignore. Otherwise reasonable people acting as if the world has ended when this man has already been president ? Some of the same people who agreed with me that KKKamala is not in any capacity a “harm reduction” vote acting as if martial law has just been declared or some shit ? Maybe I’m just the disagreeable asshole but I just find this behavior sad.
Obviously fuck Trump should go without saying how pathetically shitty that dude is but I mean come on. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have been murdered and terminally wounded under the democrats, not trump. Roe v Wade was overturned under the democrats, not Trump. We have witnessed one of the most acute transfers of wealth to the ultra rich under the dems, not the republicans. The war in the Ukraine started and was goaded on under Biden’s admin, not Trump.
I’m not trying to say in any sense that things will get a single iota better with republicans in office but I feel like I’m taking crazy pills seeing the reactions online and from people I would consider to be rational individuals. They might even be right that these things will get worse under another Trump admin more quickly or in different ways than if Kamala won, but still I find the reaction to it ridiculous.
Not that any american needs to or should care about my opinion considering I’m relatively removed from the situation but like, am I being unempathetic or unreasonable ?
I don’t find your view unreasonable at all. Pro-Democrat people have always been crazy when it comes to losing the election to a Republican and Pro-Republican people have always been crazy when it comes to losing the election to a Democrat.
The really substantial global events such as the Zionist Genocide against the Gaza Strip and the Russia-Ukraine war are more impactful than all the bickering between the 2 parties in the USA. State agencies make plans years in advance before carrying them out so that they can dedicate state resources towards those plans. If there were to be a candidate that caused major disruption to those plans then all efforts would be made to undermine their chance of coming to power.
There’s only a change in rhetoric and framing of major events depending on who wins the election. I don’t live in the USA either but I remember feeling conflicted about how I would have voted were I to have lived there in 2020. Trump is outwardly a racist person who uses similar propaganda tactics as Hitler IMO. He feeds off of people’s anger, scapegoats minorities, creates a sense of ‘community’ among his supporters to make them feel emotionally invested in supporting him, uses ingroup/outgroup politics more heavily, and creates catchy labels to attack his enemies “sleepy Joe”, “crooked Hillary” etc.
Whereas Kamala Harris and Democrats in general (like Obama) are just good at honing in on the most diplomatic language possible to invoke apathy towards all injustices perpetrated by the US government, its allies and corporations. And to be honest, with me I admit that it kind of works. I remember feeling much more passionate about awful shit in the USA when Trump was president compared to Biden. I can’t even imagine the rage I would have felt had Donald Trump justified the bombing of Al-Ahli Hospital by Israel compared to Biden doing the exact same thing.
Which of the two is worse is impossible for me to say, and all Dems who admonish people for voting for Jill Stein and opposing Genocide, blaming them for some imaginary people bleeding out are total clowns. The election ended up being about whether you identify more with Elon Musk and Joe Rogan or with Beyoncé. It’s ok if you don’t fall into either camp.
Yeah I’m in a similar space as a Canadian. Stayed relatively offline until a couple hours ago and now it’s official lol. I empathize with your growing sense of detachment from American politics and what helped me come to grips with that is recently is learning that America has the most frequent elections of any country in the whole world. It’s baked into their culture. They go through this cycle every 4 years like clockwork, as their constitution mandates.
The reactions both before and after the 2016 one were EXACTLY like this. Same talking points, same willful ignorance of all the horrible bullshit the incumbent dem admin did like Biden blowing up Nordstream, helping complete the border wall, deliberately stalling/defusing 1/6 investigations, aiding and abetting the Palestinian genocide, stoking the Ukraine war, shrugging at all the SCOTUS rulings rather than just packing it like the GOP did…
It’s just going to be so painful and cringe to see all their fantasies about muh concentration camps and cancelled elections not come true and see them do all of this AGAIN in 2028, probably with fucking Kumla again.
I guess to get to your concern, if you’re being unempathetic than I definitely am too for whatever that is worth. I used to be willing to live and let live for americans who voted for whomever because I didn’t see meaningful difference and because I thought they were simply misled, but after being personally insulted and attacked and sneered at by Americans who tell you to butt out as a non-American when you stop toeing the DNC line, I kind of just said fuck 'em. I think they deliberately make the choice of “genocide over there vs over here” and dress it up with pride stickers and memes and twitter posts and Parks & Rec screenshots to make themselves feel better about only giving a shit about American lives. I’m just emotionally divesting from American politics and focusing on things that can actually help prepare me. It helps to remember that they do this every 2 goddamn years and it’s not the end of the world.
I had the same feeling. I am not going to bat for Trump now or even, man is a piece of shit, but he’s still a known quantity. They have had a Trump presidency before. It sucked sure, but I don’t know why people are acting like he is going to declare himself emperor day 1. He has been in office, we know exactly the type of policies he would be pursuing. A couple of which I could honestly see as being good things, albeit for the wrong reasons (like if Trump actually withdrew the US from NATO, not that I expect that to ever happen).
Yet I see people seriously believing that he is going to round up all dissenters day 1 and declare martial law. ICE has been doing that already, for both flavours of administration.
This shit was so predictable lmao at least the victory lap will be less violent than the “stolen election” protests, America now has a more fitting face
All this electoralism talk just makes me go like
They’ll pay for their crimes one day.
While you are talking about the destruction of America, is the True God of Christianity, Yahweh, already selling America to social liberals and flooding American with immigrants of mixed-European origin and non-European origin as punishment for their fake school death camp genocides against Indigenous people and their refusal to confess that the Nazi Holocaust is a cheap imitation of the ongoing war crimes by the Western European empires and British diaspora?
Well… dems on Twitter are salivating over a completely flattened Gaza as revenge for their loss. Very cool…
Lots of pro-genocide, anti-immigrant and pro-natural disaster tweets suddenly coming out the woodwork from the supposed compassionate dems.
Same on TikTok. Leftist creators’ comments are being swarmed by Dems saying some incredibly morally repugnant shit. They will blame everyone but themselves.
Yup. Saw a few of them already saying they look forward to buying property in ethnically cleansed Gaza/West Bank.
Also this:
They really cannot keep their masks on can they?
To them anti-fascism is just a vibe, and social justice causes just an aesthetic, a way to signal team loyalty. When push comes to shove and they get scratched, all of their feigned sympathy with the oppressed goes out the window and they become foaming at the mouth Nazis indistinguishable from MAGA.
anti-fascism IS just a vibe to them but fascism itself is too, I would argue lol. According to them fascism is when you say mean things about minorities on twitter and complain about woke, definitely has nothing to do with imperial shrinkage and what happens when empires run out of gas. This cycle has taught me just how little the american voter gives a fuck about geopolitics. They themselves will often tell you with a smile how they only really care about domestic politics (AKA what they personally stand to gain from imperialism).
lmao thats your average liberal right there
Their true-crime fetish spills over into fantasizing about endless brown people being bombed by their own country.
you act like this was not always going to be the response, there level of care was not that high anyway, they where willing to suport a canidate who told people who suported Gaza that now was not the time
Mood around my campus was pretty dead today. I voted for big K but I am so incredibly disappointed by how this turned out. Also, she and Biden have apparently disappeared. She never even saw the crowd after the results were called.
who’s big K?
Kamala
She is talking now, apparently.
Now I wonder if Trump will actually implement those 100% tariffs he threatened against dedollarizing countries.
Wait so he is threatening me with the faster collapse of the American Empire?
Hopefully, but IMO its irrelevant which party controls which branch of government. Nobody’s stopping the collapse train.
Overall I like that murica’s international standing takes big respectability hits, and less countries are likely to go along with whatever imperialist venture they have.
That’s the thing, I’m not even sure if it will be faster than if the Dems got in because they’re historically more prone to warmongering, thus getting the Empire into unwinnable military wars rather than economic ones.
Idk why I do it but I’m watching lib Dutch talk shows and of course they are about the elections today and it’s expectedly insufferable
Accelerationist candidate let’s go!
Ain’t nobody stopping that train, its accelerating no matter which party’s in power.
It’s powered by the coal in that city that’s endlessly aflame underground.
I wonder how much effect crptobros had in this election. Crypto pacs have spent over a hundred million dollars in ads smearing the candidates they didn’t like. Even Kamala Harris had to get in on the crypto grift when she put forward her weird proposal for protecting black men’s investments in crypto or something like that.
Probably a lot. Reading a lot of the (heinous) comments on polymarket.com , it seemed like a ton of them were contributing to those, and gloating about the win.
What in god’s name is that website?
Honestly man I can’t even say I am shocked. Saw it coming from miles away.
You mean to say that –
-
switching candidates halfway through the election
-
having your replacement candidate be one of the few people somehow less popular than Biden
-
having said candidate go around openly endorsing genocide
-
telling leftists to ignore this, because genocide isn’t really a big deal
– isn’t some kind of winning strategy to Unite the Left?
Honestly, imo they lost the election before Gaza even entered the mainstream conversation. The Dems the past 4 years have exhibited nothing but betrayal after betrayal of their constituency. From record deportations of immigrants, to crushing labor strikes, to escalating the trade war with China, to deceiving the public about COVID relief, to bungled natural disaster responses, to lying about Biden’s obvious cognitive decline, etc.
Gaza was just the nail in the coffin.
The funniest part is that
- switching candidates halfway through the election
- having your replacement candidate be one of the few people somehow less popular than Biden
Isn’t a wholly accurate representation, as she surged after initially replacing Biden because she briefly represented “hope and change” …then she immediately threw all that momentum away to try and win over racist right wingers as a black woman.
-
That’s cause you’re not in a cult. :)
Honey, wake up, new narrative just dropped.
If only the evil Russians didn’t email bomb threats, Kamala would have won. :( Damn you, Putin! You win again you dastardly villain!
- Buy a .ru domain
- Send an email to literally anyone in the US
- Brace for impact
I wonder how many were from yandex, anyone can get a .ru email for free. It’s probably Americans doing it tbh, kids and the like.
Mueller round 2, go!
Liberals do need their theatre. Maybe lin-manuel miranda can write this one.
Now they get to LARP as the resistance again. I bet punk music will see a rise in popularity.
She not only lost, she lost big. A few bomb threats didn’t make the difference.
She lost the popular vote, and thats huge, as a rule of thumb you should just be able to assume the dems will win the popular vote.
Found the Putinbot.
I got mad for a second at your reply only to realise this is Lemmygrad lol
smh ruzzians can’t take a joke 😤
I can’t believe Hitler beat Hitler, this is the end of democracy
They’re the same picture
It looks like the Elensky curse has struck again
Damn. Not as powerful as the Assad curse, but getting close.
Give it some time. The German government is looking real shaky at the moment, might be the next we see fall.
Reverse Assad.
Good knows what’d happen if those two teamed up.
This election has proven that the fearmongering for the Greens by the Democrats was unfounded. The Greens won 0,7% of the vote in Michigan and the Dems there lost by more than a percent
Guess all the millions they spent on jill stein attack ads was a waste.
Technically, it could also mean that people who didn’t want to vote for a major party abstained from the election altogether (e.g. why wait for an hour and a half if you think not voting at all would accomplish the same thing?)
if you think not voting at all would accomplish the same thing
It doesn’t achieve the same thing though. There are all sorts of narratives that can be made up about why people decided not to vote that the establishment can use to excuse its own horrific behavior. A vote for a third party is a much clearer message, and it helps said third parties build momentum, even if just on a local level.
On the other hand, i won’t judge people who decided that not voting was the best way for them to protest, i live in Europe and voting is probably easier here, barely takes a couple minutes and we usually have polling stations within walking distance. Which is why personally i still go out and vote, not for a third party because here even the third, fourth and fifth parties are neoliberal warmonger Washington puppets, but for a party that i know will barely get a few thousand votes in my entire state, but at least is anti-imperialist, anti-capitalist and anti-genocide.
It’s depressing but it is what it is and you have to start somewhere even if small. The most important work we do as communists happens between elections anyway. Elections in a bourgeois dictatorship are the sideshow of the sideshow. Organizing, agitating and educating is what we should be putting the majority of our effort into.
Case in point:
Now i’m not sure if this graphic is accurate, and i’ve seen other reports that put Stein around 20% in this district, but either way it’s a powerful message of what happens when your candidate unapologetically supports and enables a genocide. I wish we could have seen these kinds of results for third parties all across the US, but at least this is a start.
It’s hard to read that as anything other than, ‘if you had met us halfway, you’d have won by a large margin’.
These are all excellent points.
