Daily reminder that the IDF’s civilian casualty ratio is worse than America flattening Japan during WW2, including with two atomic bombs.
The IDF is literally killing more civilians, proportionally, than an extremely racist state (as anti-Japanese sentiment is well-recorded in WW2 America) in a position of total war conducting an unrestricted bombing campaign with primitive 1-mile precision radii bombs, incendiaries, and literal weapons of mass destruction.
The IDF is literally killing more civilians, proportionally, than an extremely racist state (as anti-Japanese sentiment is well-recorded in WW2 America) in a position of total war conducting an unrestricted bombing campaign
Not to whatabout… but the Japanese were killing scores of conquered Chinese civilians long before the Americans got involved. Japan have engaged in xenophobic propaganda against anyone non-Japanese to justify their own nationalist expansionism.
You make it sound as though Japan wasn’t a fascist country who signed the Axis/Tripartite alliance with Mussolini and Hitler.
I mean, my point isn’t that the Japanese Empire wasn’t horrific. My point is that, in WW2, with numerous reasons to be murderous and indiscriminate, the US still murdered fewer civilians in Japan, proportionally, than Israel is now.
If we’re comparing Israel to the Japanese Empire, then Israel’s current crimes don’t hold a candle.
I don’t think the OP is attempting to make any commentary on Japan, and is trying to exclusively put into perspective the atrocities by Israel. Your comment distracts from the original intent.
I’m pretty sure the point is that the IDF has killed a higher ratio of civilians than the US did in a conflict where they dropped TWO nuclear bombs on population-centric cities
Nobody asked if you thought they deserved it, but thanks for offering I guess
I get what you’re saying, but OP said America is extremely racist, but the Imperial Japanese was far more racist by the standards of the time.
The US and Japan were racists before and during World War II, but the latter is more racist by the standards of the time and even by today’s standards.
Daily reminder that Hamas publishes all terrorist deaths as civilians, so the ratio is about as known as the inside of a black hole. Yes, Hamas recruits children as long as they’re able to hold a gun.
Got a source for that? All figures I’m pulling up actually show the civilian death toll from US bombing Japan to be significantly higher than Israel’s. Just looking at the bombing of Tokyo more civilians died in a single night than all of Gaza in the last 50 years. That’s not even counting the horrible death ratios from the two atomic bombs.
So you’re counting every island and military ship inhabited only by Japanese military in this. Of course that would skew the numbers. If you look more specifically at military actions done in Japanese populated areas (a statistic that actually matches the current war), you’re going to find some horrifying numbers.
Which are how many? 80% of deaths? 50%? 100%? Does it even matter?
This little piece of insecurity you’re trying to hold onto is irelevant. Hamas was put in place by Israel - they aren’t terrorists, they are government-sponsored agitators whose purpose is to make Palestinians look aggressive and unhinged. And even if we ignore that - Israel is conducting genocide. They’ve been doing it for 70 years. Anyone fighting it isn’t a terrorist, they’re a national fucking hero.
So yeah, tell me more about how some percentage of the civilian death toll is actually sponsored by Israel, like I care about them, or actual freedom fighters, like that’s not even worse.
So what’s the point you’re failing to make here? That Israel aren’t genocidal?
Let’s consult senior members of the Israeli government on that point, shall we?
Prime Minister Netanyahu
They (Israel/IDF) are committed to completely eliminating this evil (Palestine) from the world,”
and
You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember.
and
I don’t call them human animals because that would be insulting to animals
“Defence” minister Galant
We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly
Kallner…
Nakba to the enemy now! This day is our Pearl Harbour. We will still learn the lessons. Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 48. A Nakba in Gaza and a Nakba for anyone who dares to join!
Atbaryan…
erasing all of Gaza from the face of the Earth. Gaza needs to be wiped out.
Halevi…
goals for this victory. One, there is no more Muslim land in the land of Israel. After we make it the land of Israel, Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom.”
No irony, just misinformation in the form of a poorly done meme (you couldn’t even get the panel order correct). I expect nothing less from one of the top lemmy Hamas propagandists.
No I just see this person posting Hamas propaganda constantly on Lemmy and do not believe a single statement yet make. Their lies have been proven countless times already.
And no, official US and NATO investigations do not count as independent verification. They routinely use IDF as their sources for such claims without hesitation. To the point where even Biden parrots completely fabricated claims that even the IDF has to quickly walk back, such as the 40 beheaded babies.
The people of Gaza are literally being starved, dehydrated, and bombed to death along with any public infrastructure that could help. Why are we focusing on this instead of how we can get Israel to stop? They are the ones in power, that is the reality of an apartheid state holding a permanent occupation. Without any occupation there is no resistance to the occupation.
Why are we focusing on this instead of how we can get Israel to stop? They are the ones in power, that is the reality of an apartheid state holding a permanent occupation. Without any occupation there is no resistance to the occupation.
Calling for 1 side to stop does not end a conflict. Calling for Hamas to release the hostages and surrender would help this conflict end.
Calling terrorists resistance and destroying all meaning of the word apartheid does not help your cause either.
Calling for 1 side to stop does not end a conflict. Calling for Hamas to release the hostages and surrender would help this conflict end.
Hamas hasn’t been the one rejecting a ceasefire for hostage deal. But the irony of those two sentences right next to each other is pretty funny lol.
Calling terrorists resistance and destroying all meaning of the word apartheid does not help your cause either.
I’m going to be charitable and assume you don’t know the history of life under Israeli occupation nor how the apartheid in South Africa ended.
The resistance in South Africa was also labeled as terrorists, Should they have surrendered too? Would that have ended the apartheid?
Ah yes, twisting my words and claiming I “run away” great tactics to prove your superiority.
Last I checked the words “some” and “all” do not mean the same thing. Do you want me to provide evidence from a dictionary or is that not biased enough towards Hamas for you?
So this suggests Hamas mostly took precaution not to kill children (these stats are even excluding friendly fire by the IDF). They did kill children, and that was certainly bad. But it did not seem to be an order from the top down nor their battle strategy because many Hamas fighters did not kill children.
You on the other hand are actually calling on the IDF to kill every Palestinian child because they are supposedly all Hamas.
You are the only one defending the killing of children.
I went looking for receipts and found none - maybe you’d like to point to an example… or would that be too Hamas of me?
I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here though - it’s clear Israel funded Hamas’s efforts to displace the secular moderates in the hopes they’d launch an attack like Oct 7th to create the pretext for the genocide they’re now committing. I’ll be happy to share quotes from senior Israeli officials saying as much - or is Netanyahu spreading Hamas propaganda too?
Ah great, another one that thinks they know everything after reading 2 AJ articles about the conflict. Don’t bother, I’ve already heard all the quotes hundreds of times. I just don’t reach such far fetched conclusions as you have.
You didn’t bring your receipts - here’s a few of mine… Feel free to call interpreting these straightforward declarations of genocidal intent conspiracist. The people you’re spouting propaganda about are killing more kids, committing more warcrimes, maintaining an apartheid state, and are committing a genocide to create a far-right wing, autocratic ethnostate, Rudolph Jitler.
On the funding
Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, (Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s) telling a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat.
The Israeli government gave me a budget, and the military government gives to the mosques.
Arafat also referred to Hamas as
A creature of Israel
Avner Cohen
Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation
On the genocidal intent
Prime Minister Netanyahu
They (Israel/IDF) are committed to completely eliminating this evil from the world,”
and
You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember.
and
I don’t call them human animals because that would be insulting to animals
“Defence” minister Galant
We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly
Kallner…
Nakba to the enemy now! This day is our Pearl Harbour. We will still learn the lessons. Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 48. A Nakba in Gaza and a Nakba for anyone who dares to join!
Atbaryan…
erasing all of Gaza from the face of the Earth. Gaza needs to be wiped out.
Halevi…
goals for this victory. One, there is no more Muslim land in the land of Israel. After we make it the land of Israel, Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom.”
Daily reminder that the IDF’s civilian casualty ratio is worse than America flattening Japan during WW2, including with two atomic bombs.
The IDF is literally killing more civilians, proportionally, than an extremely racist state (as anti-Japanese sentiment is well-recorded in WW2 America) in a position of total war conducting an unrestricted bombing campaign with primitive 1-mile precision radii bombs, incendiaries, and literal weapons of mass destruction.
We depicted the Japanese as rats, demons and vermin in propoganda posters to dehumanize them, and we put Japanese-Americans in internment camps.
Not as fucked up as what the Japanese were doing to the Chinese and our POWs, not that it was a competition.
War is so fucked up. Humans suck. Fuck the IDF and Hamas. I’m so sickened by this genocide.
I’ve found this to be incredibly powerful. Trying to end on a slightly positive note…
Not to whatabout… but the Japanese were killing scores of conquered Chinese civilians long before the Americans got involved. Japan have engaged in xenophobic propaganda against anyone non-Japanese to justify their own nationalist expansionism.
You make it sound as though Japan wasn’t a fascist country who signed the Axis/Tripartite alliance with Mussolini and Hitler.
I mean, my point isn’t that the Japanese Empire wasn’t horrific. My point is that, in WW2, with numerous reasons to be murderous and indiscriminate, the US still murdered fewer civilians in Japan, proportionally, than Israel is now.
If we’re comparing Israel to the Japanese Empire, then Israel’s current crimes don’t hold a candle.
I don’t think the OP is attempting to make any commentary on Japan, and is trying to exclusively put into perspective the atrocities by Israel. Your comment distracts from the original intent.
I’m pretty sure the point is that the IDF has killed a higher ratio of civilians than the US did in a conflict where they dropped TWO nuclear bombs on population-centric cities
Nobody asked if you thought they deserved it, but thanks for offering I guess
I get what you’re saying, but OP said America is extremely racist, but the Imperial Japanese was far more racist by the standards of the time.
The US and Japan were racists before and during World War II, but the latter is more racist by the standards of the time and even by today’s standards.
I’m not sure what the point of asserting that is, if not a tacit justification for killing civilians
I’m only specifically addressing OP’s particular statement that I have mentioned.
Daily reminder that Hamas publishes all terrorist deaths as civilians, so the ratio is about as known as the inside of a black hole. Yes, Hamas recruits children as long as they’re able to hold a gun.
Hey, guess what?
50-50, the extremely dubious current IDF claim of civilian casualty ratio, is still worse than the US carpet bombing Japan.
Got a source for that? All figures I’m pulling up actually show the civilian death toll from US bombing Japan to be significantly higher than Israel’s. Just looking at the bombing of Tokyo more civilians died in a single night than all of Gaza in the last 50 years. That’s not even counting the horrible death ratios from the two atomic bombs.
Ratio, not absolute numbers.
Times of Israel citing an IDF official as 2:1 civilians:combatants - bearing in mind any >15 year old male will be classed as a combatant too, even if they’re civilian.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_War - 1:2.5 civilians:combatants of Pacific theatre, if Wikipedia is enough for you.
So you’re counting every island and military ship inhabited only by Japanese military in this. Of course that would skew the numbers. If you look more specifically at military actions done in Japanese populated areas (a statistic that actually matches the current war), you’re going to find some horrifying numbers.
So you’re saying the civilian death toll is fake, but also justified?
Is there an atrocity denial handbook, or do y’all just come up with the same arguments organically?
No, that’s what you’re saying. I made no such statements.
Again, this isn’t a civilian death toll that Hamas publishes, it’s a death toll. It includes all terrorists killed as well.
Which are how many? 80% of deaths? 50%? 100%? Does it even matter?
This little piece of insecurity you’re trying to hold onto is irelevant. Hamas was put in place by Israel - they aren’t terrorists, they are government-sponsored agitators whose purpose is to make Palestinians look aggressive and unhinged. And even if we ignore that - Israel is conducting genocide. They’ve been doing it for 70 years. Anyone fighting it isn’t a terrorist, they’re a national fucking hero.
So yeah, tell me more about how some percentage of the civilian death toll is actually sponsored by Israel, like I care about them, or actual freedom fighters, like that’s not even worse.
So what’s the point you’re failing to make here? That Israel aren’t genocidal?
Let’s consult senior members of the Israeli government on that point, shall we?
Prime Minister Netanyahu
and
and
“Defence” minister Galant
Kallner…
Atbaryan…
Halevi…
Who’d have thought?
You do realize the irony of you posting this under this meme right
No irony, just misinformation in the form of a poorly done meme (you couldn’t even get the panel order correct). I expect nothing less from one of the top lemmy Hamas propagandists.
You routinely ignore any sources that contradict IDF propaganda or is critical of Israel and immediately discredit them as misinformation. Would you even believe reports made by Israeli Veterans themselves?
No I just see this person posting Hamas propaganda constantly on Lemmy and do not believe a single statement yet make. Their lies have been proven countless times already.
I guess you’d have to point out what misinformation you’re talking about.
When it comes to human shields, the only independent verification back in 2014 is of Weapons (not rockets) hidden at a vacant school, situated btwn 2 UNRWA schools housing displaced people, by a Palestinian armed group. The Guardian journalists had encountered a couple individuals in 2014 too. Yet none of those come remotely close to making hospitals and schools bombing targets. Even if all the IDF claims were true, that does not exempt those hospitals and schools as protected under international law.
And let’s just conveniently ignore how much the IDF uses human shields while we’re at it
And no, official US and NATO investigations do not count as independent verification. They routinely use IDF as their sources for such claims without hesitation. To the point where even Biden parrots completely fabricated claims that even the IDF has to quickly walk back, such as the 40 beheaded babies.
The people of Gaza are literally being starved, dehydrated, and bombed to death along with any public infrastructure that could help. Why are we focusing on this instead of how we can get Israel to stop? They are the ones in power, that is the reality of an apartheid state holding a permanent occupation. Without any occupation there is no resistance to the occupation.
Calling for 1 side to stop does not end a conflict. Calling for Hamas to release the hostages and surrender would help this conflict end.
Calling terrorists resistance and destroying all meaning of the word apartheid does not help your cause either.
Hamas hasn’t been the one rejecting a ceasefire for hostage deal. But the irony of those two sentences right next to each other is pretty funny lol.
I’m going to be charitable and assume you don’t know the history of life under Israeli occupation nor how the apartheid in South Africa ended. The resistance in South Africa was also labeled as terrorists, Should they have surrendered too? Would that have ended the apartheid?
Bombing and worsening already terrible material conditions doesn’t solve terrorism, it’s the improvement of material conditions that make terrorism fade away
Strange you just tend to run away whenever evidence is presented.
You’re the one here calling all women and children Hamas without evidence by the way.
Ah yes, twisting my words and claiming I “run away” great tactics to prove your superiority.
Last I checked the words “some” and “all” do not mean the same thing. Do you want me to provide evidence from a dictionary or is that not biased enough towards Hamas for you?
OK so let me get this straight:
I say Hamas killing children is bad, but in total only 36 out of the 1139 deaths (3%) were children.
Ten times lower than the 1/3 child demographic in israel.
So this suggests Hamas mostly took precaution not to kill children (these stats are even excluding friendly fire by the IDF). They did kill children, and that was certainly bad. But it did not seem to be an order from the top down nor their battle strategy because many Hamas fighters did not kill children.
You on the other hand are actually calling on the IDF to kill every Palestinian child because they are supposedly all Hamas.
You are the only one defending the killing of children.
The panel order being reversed was done on purpose…
Thank you for demonstrating that anything Israel doesn’t like is Hamas.
Nah, that person specifically posts Hamas propaganda constantly and fills lemmy with a bunch of easily proven lies.
I went looking for receipts and found none - maybe you’d like to point to an example… or would that be too Hamas of me?
I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here though - it’s clear Israel funded Hamas’s efforts to displace the secular moderates in the hopes they’d launch an attack like Oct 7th to create the pretext for the genocide they’re now committing. I’ll be happy to share quotes from senior Israeli officials saying as much - or is Netanyahu spreading Hamas propaganda too?
Ah great, another one that thinks they know everything after reading 2 AJ articles about the conflict. Don’t bother, I’ve already heard all the quotes hundreds of times. I just don’t reach such far fetched conclusions as you have.
You didn’t bring your receipts - here’s a few of mine… Feel free to call interpreting these straightforward declarations of genocidal intent conspiracist. The people you’re spouting propaganda about are killing more kids, committing more warcrimes, maintaining an apartheid state, and are committing a genocide to create a far-right wing, autocratic ethnostate, Rudolph Jitler.
On the funding Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, (Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s) telling a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat.
Arafat also referred to Hamas as
Avner Cohen
On the genocidal intent
Prime Minister Netanyahu
and
and
“Defence” minister Galant
Kallner…
Atbaryan…
Halevi…