A district judge in Wisconsin has sided with an 11-year-old trans girl over her use of the girls’ toilets and temporarily blocked school officials from preventing her access.
While this is welcome news, it’s also depressing that we live in a timeline stupid enough that bathroom panics are enough of a thing that there are laws on the books like this to be struck down by judges (and of course, the fact that other judges are likely to reverse this ruling).
Would you be ok with 17 year old boys to use the girls toilets at school if they just say that they identify as a girl?
What is the issue you have with it, really? You think that people are going to go into the bathroom and do something nefarious?
Before asking us why we think it’s okay, let’s really drill down into what you’re so worried about.
Guess your parents never read classics to you like: Everyone Poops. Or the wonderful sequel: Everyone Farts.
We’re just people and socializing these potty hangups is pretty childish.
Yeah you’re right, being trans isn’t even a thing, it’s all just perverted teenage boys who want to… Hear girls pee, I guess?
Seriously what the fuck is wrong with you? If you find sexual gratification being in the same room where members of the opposite gender take a shit in a closed stall, you go ahead and be as pervy as you fucking want with it, but stop projecting your weird scat fetish on everyone else and just let people go to the god damn bathroom.
When that happens we can talk about why it happened, and how it was handled. But it’s simply not a thing that happens unless it’s some anti-trans activist trying to prove a point!
Two things to ponder if you dont understand why people might answer “yes.”: Boys pissing in public on trees and in bushes is a normal thing, especially among circles expressing concern about a society that acknowledges trans people exist. Boys using toilets is a plus, at all ages. Second: every Porta potty in existence seems to operate with its gender neutrality without the same kind of panic. If you can square these two notions: Boys using a toilet isn’t odd, strange, or worth a moral panic. You might then see your question isn’t about toilets, and about gendered space and how important it is to have spaces that are exclusive and exclusionary based on something like gender, (or even… other things!)
Of course my point is about having separate spaces that are exclusive to the two sexes. Males commit the overwhelmingly large percentage of sex crimes. Giving males free access to women’s safe spaces is not going to end well.
You’re making the unnecessary leap of toilets>sex. And then further to sex>sex crimes. This is why I mentioned portapotties. These are gender neutral public toilets found all over the nation. Are portapotties offensive? Sexual dens?
Toilets and bathrooms are perfectly functional as gender neutral spaces. The insistence that a transperson using the bathroom that aligns with their gender is somehow an invitation for sex crime just doesn’t have much basis.
Portapotties are single person. You’re not walking around in a portapotty with other people. There’s no possibility of someone peeping under/over the stall wall in a portapotty.
Most public toilets are not gender neutral, they’re male and female.
Again - it’s not that the trans person will assault someone, it’s the fact that it eliminates it as a “safe space” where women can go knowing there won’t be men in there. If you let trans women in you’re letting biological men in, meaning any man can now use that space simply by saying they identify as a woman.
Ah, got it. You don’t seem to be parsing between sex and gender here, which is probably why this is going to be a troublesome topic every time it comes up.
I mean you extrapolate from “biological men” into “any man” way too casually to have a serious opinion on this topic.
I mean, jist wait to you hear about this thing called homosexuality. No bathroom will be safe anywhere from anyone if people know about that!
Public toilets are sex based, not gender. They are male and female. They have existed since long before gender “wasn’t a binary”.
A biological female that identifies as a man can’t use the urinals, can they? No, because they don’t have a penis. Toilets have always been made to accommodate the different sexes, not genders.
Well if they aren’t a boy then it wouldn’t matter and I would be fine with my daughter sharing a locker room/bathroom. I’m more worried about her being shot and killed than someone who is trans in the bathroom with her.
People don’t just wake up one day and go “I’m a girl! Hyuk! I’m going to go be a girl just to get in the bathroom! Hyuk!”
People don’t do that, especially trans people. Get your head out of your ass.
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Why do questions like this always sound like the person asking is just putting a question mark at the end of something they’ve considered doing?
Ah yes, the people that are against letting men in the women’s spaces are the ones that want to go in women’s spaces. Impeccable logic you have there.
Trans women are women, bigot.
I’d imagine that trans women don’t want to use the men’s room because of people like you who consider restrooms to be peeping opportunities.
I’m talking sex, not gender.
Quit the name calling.
Also again with trying to deflect and call the people that want to stop any potential for “peeping opportunities” the ones that are the “peepers” lol. Make it make sense.
Also again with trying to deflect and call the people that want to stop any potential for “peeping opportunities” the ones that are the “peepers” lol.
I don’t want 11 year old girls being forced to use men’s restrooms. Why do you want that so badly?
11 year old biological boys you mean?
Why do you so desparately want biological males to be allowed in to female-only spaces? You’re trying to make out that the people that don’t want biological males in biological female toilets are the creepy ones here and it’s bizarre lol.
Why do you want 11 year old biological girls in the mens toilets with you? Why do you want that so badly?
You’re dumb
Can you not answer the question?
Good lord they are only 11 years old. Who cares what bathroom they use.
Make them all unisex. If it’s a large facility with a bunch of stalls or a small facility for only one person, make them all unisex.
Yes. And get rid of that creepy door gap while you’re at it
I hate those gaps
It’s only America that has pervert friendly toilet gaps.
I went to a club with only one, huge, unisex bathroom once. It was… like any other bathroom. Seeing people of the opposite gender wasn’t really a concern anyways.
Since it was a rather yuge bathroom for a yuge club, if there was any shenanigans going on there would’ve been plenty of witnesses to call it out.
There was even one guy who went piss at a urinal, and started to leave without washing his hands. All the other guys started shouting at the guy to was his hands lol.
I support this.
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To be fair, there is safety in numbers and consequently I also see a benefit to combining them. I’m a dude, and I would rather walk down a busy pedestrian mall than a sketchy half-empty street or an urban trail on a moonless night.
Same thing with bathrooms. I imagine women feel better in a bathroom where other women and other people are present and aware, vs a nearly empty bathroom where a creep could walk in and isolate them at any moment. I’ve been to places with large unisex bathrooms (hot springs, spas, etc.) and there’s enough people in there that no one is gonna try anything stupid/inappropriate without being immediately noticed. Bathroom troublemakers are a small subset of the universally large group of people who have to use the restroom anyway.
I only support gender-segregated bathrooms because I don’t want a bunch of chicks clogging up the mensroom with their slow pissing/shitting/bloody paper towels on the floor. :D I am unreasonable and self-centered, but anyone who has ever been to a concert knows which line is longer.
…so you are going to take away my urinals, my fast turnaround time, and my silence?
They can put urinals in a unisex restroom.
In fact, there are all sorts of things in public restrooms that are unused. For example, the last restroom you visited had a sink where you could have washed your hands.
Oh look this site has a block feature
See how easy it can be to get urinals and silence?
If turnaround time is still a problem, get your prostate checked. Help is available, even for old geezers.
In my hypothetical example, when you pictured stalls, you pictured them with only toilets inside. You didn’t even consider that there could be a stall with just a urinal.
You may enjoy sidling to the trough and gazing at your competition, but some of us appreciate not having creeps trying to size us up.
I haven’t seen a trough style urinal in a developed nation in my entire life.
I’ve seen them in seven States in the US, also on a trip to Canada. I lived in Germany for a while, and used them there - and Austria.
Maybe you should try traveling and open up that closed mind. Expand those horizons.
I travel monthly for work. Last two months I have been to Germany and South East Asia. Maybe I am just not going out of my way to find the most disgusting toliet system, unlike some people I can mention.
You have never been to a stadium bathroom before?
I have not.
You haven’t been to the right bars.
That is a distinct possibility.
Your urinal privilege has been pissed away.
Right so how do people plan to sell this? “Hey 49% of the population, we are going to make a basic need more difficult for you and you get nothing in return”.
You don’t have to. Nobody votes on this shit. You just start building buildings with a large number of private, all-gender stalls like we’ve been doing in limited quantities for a long time. And most wouldn’t care that strongly, or might even appreciate the added privacy.
Wow tell me more about this country that has no building codes.
We need to separate the bathrooms by function!
Number ones on the left number twos on the right!
Now the problem with that would be that then people would only use the pissing bathroom, because who would want to poop with other people? I sure wouldn’t.
Pretty much only conservatives. They’re actually pretty obsessed with thinking about children being raped in bathrooms.
Good! Republicans need to get over their obsession with trans children’s genitals.
I’ve never understood why I should care where someone else goes to the bathroom anyways.
I also agree with the judge in good faith, however it raises some questions about the authority of the school system. Schools are known to not give kids the amendment rights like them being able to search your backpack or locker and most states have laws that demand that kids go to school which limits their freedoms, we all know why that is, but the judge has barred the school from using this power and gave it to a kid. Someone might go through the verdict and see how reaching this is, but it is interesting.
I wouldn’t want my boy showing genitals to women on a bathroom. Viceversa too
Maybe teach your boy not to show their genitals to people in the bathroom because that’s actually weird af? I swear the people against this are telling on themselves. You’re a bunch of bathroom perverts and you think it’s normal/everyone does it. Because I have never once in my whole life seen someone’s genitals in a public bathroom. You looking for it or what?
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What world do you live in that you see other people’s genitals in the bathroom? I’ve never had this issue, none of my friends have, and I doubt you could provide any significant proof that is an issue. You just hate trans people. Say the quiet part out loud.
Wait, you mean you don’t just drop trou the second you get into a public bathroom? That’s crazy, my girlfriends and I are always asking strangers to look at our crotches before we pee.
Wait no, that’s never happened once in my 39 years on earth. I’m really curious about what bathrooms republicans are in if loose genitalia is the constant threat they make it out to be.
Yeah even at the urinals I’ve never seen another man’s dick. There isn’t even urinals in women’s bathrooms so what’s gonna be the problem?
I think the quiet part that needs to be a bit more out loud is that while all the fingers are pointed at trans people over creeping in the ladies’ room, the resulting ‘bathroom panic’ gives cis men cover to go into the ladies’ bathroom to police who’s trans or not in there and it’s totally not creeping when they do that, nosirreebob
The bigger issue is that it gives perverted and creepy men an open invitation to go in to womens bathrooms by simply saying they identify as a woman.
No men are going in to womens bathrooms to “police” them.
And trans girls/women aren’t just doing that either.
I have never heard a man say “oh darn! I can’t rape her, she made it to the safe zone of the women’s bathroom!”
Are you daft? You can’t be serious right? Creeps aren’t going to be deterred by a door. Trans people just want to use the bathroom and get out as quickly and quietly as possible.
🤦🏼♀️
I don’t know what bathrooms you’ve been in, but nobody is showing anyone anything in the bathroom. In most cases people who are trans use stalls anyways.
Most is not all and source of that statistic?
If you think about it… She wants to use the girl’s toilets. I’d assume there’ll only be stalls.
Careful, logic hurts them
I use most because I can’t definitively say all.
Logically Trans people are in situations where they are going to be in individual stalls.
Like I said, nobody is showing off their genitals in the bathroom. I regret to inform you that you’re doing something wrong if you’re walking into a bathroom with the purpose of exposing yourself to the occupants.
That’s exactly the point. The judge sided with the 11 year old girl so she wouldn’t be forced to use the boys bathroom with your son.
This is some good Accidental Ally material.
As a male, I’ve learned long ago when I step up to a stall next to another dude, I’m not supposed to look at their genitals. As it turns out, dudes don’t like when other dudes look at their junk. As a result, I’ve never had another dude showing me their genitals in a men’s room.
Come to think of it, if I had a choice, I’d probably rather a woman looked at my junk in the bathroom than a dude…
Yeah and that’s the point, to keep it that way. No transsexuals indecently exposing themselves or perving on unconsenting kids or adults on bathrooms. Thanks for agreeing on that.
But if the same happens with men you’re cool with it?
Same equipment and the possibility of accompany to your boi or girl gives you the extra coolness 😎
???
gender neutral bathrooms are the answer here.
most public places have them now, don’t get why you can’t have one in a school.
In places with large crowds, gender neutral bathrooms (assuming you also mean single-use) don’t really work. It causes massive lines.
Not to mention, there’s no need. It’s a bathroom. Why does anyone care who they pee or poop next to? It seems so silly and arbitrary to me. Just get in, do your thing, wash your hands, and get out. haha
We can have gender neutral bathrooms where we have a shared hand-washing area, and individual stalls. Heck, you can even have cameras pointed towards the sink area if people are so afraid of getting harassed in the bathroom. Gender should not matter when you have individual stalls.
Right? I’ve been using public restrooms for a long time and I don’t recall ever seeing anyone’s naughty bits.
…and for me the most ridiculous part of this discussion is that bathrooms have never been a secure space. If some creep wanted to go into a bathroom to harass people, there is literally nothing stopping them. It’s not like bathrooms have guarded entrances and now people have a sneaky way to get into a bathroom by pretending to be transgender or something insane like that.
It’s literally a manufactured issue to get the GOP electorate terrified, as everything they do is designed to do.
I’ve been using public restrooms for a long time and I don’t recall ever seeing anyone’s naughty bits.
I see you’ve never had the misfortune of using the circular trough-style urinal where everyone is facing each other and peeing into the middle. Thankfully, they are not very common.
Oh you know what? I think I did have those in elementary school. That was a while ago though.
Lol! Those are meant for washing your hands, not for pissing. Although I guess I can imagine a scenario where some genius thinks one is a urinal and somehow the idea catches on. Still pretty funny though.
From the Horrible Bathroom Hall of Fame, I present the Mathematical Sciences bathroom at the University of Central Florida:
LOL when I first saw the pic you posted I thought the sink in the middle was for communal pissing
What is it with the US and making public toilets as weird as possible? Your freaking walls & doors are bad enough but this is like a piss fountain. I’d expect something like this in maybe a swinger / fetish club or something like that.
It’s not a urinal, it’s for washing your hands. I’ve mostly ever seen them in factories where you have shifts coming on and off the clock at the same time so they need to be able to handle a high volume of workers.
That said, I’m not a big fan of the piss walls you get in the UK and Ireland. They always feel awkward to me, but I guess if you’re used to it…
The best compromise for neutrality and efficiency is to keep gender neutral stalls but also retain an area with urinals which will be much quicker for large numbers of men to pass through then using stalls, and also saves water.
The other consideration would be that the stalls will need to be sufficiently screened that people in them don’t feel overlooked or vulnerable (I’m looking at you USA with your weird gappy stall building!).
Um I think if we’re gonna have urinals, they need to have a divider to completely separate them from the rest of the bathroom area, just so some conservative women don’t freak out about the idea of men urinating outside of a closed stall.
But yea the stalls need to have no gaps in them. I hate people just peeking in, especially when I was in k-12 public school.
I’m a big fan of just getting rid of urinals altogether as a man, I’m choosing stalls every time anyway
It works perfectly, it’s just more expensive to construct. In some Nordic countries there are very few places with bathroom stalls, they either have lots of single-use bathrooms or completely walled-in rooms (wall from ground to roof, regular door) with a toilet and then sinks outside to wash your hands. Works in shopping malls, airports, schools (from small elementary schools to huge high-schools, I’ve never seen one with stalls). The only exceptions I can think of that have stalls are amusement parks, some sport arenas and (ironically) IKEA.
I was at a concert at Red Rocks Amphitheatre and they had gender neutral single stall bathrooms with a shared sink area. It was great. Sure, there was a line, but there was going to be one anyway. However, it ensured 100% utilization, when potentially one side would have less than 100% usage when the other has a line. It’s ideal for places with large crowds.
(The stalls were also well built basically single rooms, not the shitty American stalls with gaps in them.)
Imagine holding in a shit for months as a court determines where you can poop.
The best I can do is 3 days.
This is like the 4th time the state congress has tried pulling this crap and it keeps getting shot down. Meanwhile they don’t even consider marijuana legislation even though millions of dollars are going to taxes for other states they have it legalized. So stupid.
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Making people feel hopeless is a great use of their efforts. They want power, and to get that power they have to disenfranchise people who don’t disagree with them. So getting people to voluntarily ignore politics because it is (they are) ugly is a valid end result.
Precisely that, to waste time and resources in pursuing the goal of collapsing the functioning of the united states government. It has been the goal of the republican party since at least Regan and likely Nixon.
I keep asking myself this every time the christofascists win a supreme court case.
The majority of US citizens believe in legal abortion but, hey here we are!
Its not, literally all you have to do is not discriminate.
The obvious solution is to make available an additional bathroom that is universally available to anyone.
Err… this simply isn’t true.
Children are fucking brutal and always looking for ways to put others down. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Remember when we were kids?
Sided with an 11 year old or sided with the law and the 11 year olds rights?
Wouldn’t it be their right to choose toilets?
Good point. Shouldn’t slaves have just been happy what the majority of people in the south wanted?
