- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
Elon Musk’s alleged penchant for not paying bills is catching up with him. In the wake of numerous lawsuits claiming the world’s richest man failed to pay severance owed to many of the 6,000 employees he fired after acquiring Twitter. On Monday, CNBC reported that the tech company now known as X is facing some 2,200 arbitration cases filed by ex-employees, which come with $3.5 million in required fees—an amount that doesn’t even include the actual severance owed to those Musk let go.
In October, shortly after taking Twitter’s reins, Musk laid off more than half of its employees, promising most at least two months’ salary plus a week’s pay for every year they’d worked at the firm. Thousands claim that they haven’t received a single dime, and ex-employees have since filed several lawsuits seeking their promised benefits.
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You guys are failing to see that this was a simple misunderstanding.
Musk was told he needed to pay severance to all the ex employees, but he was confused why he was paying severance to “X employees” if they were still employed, so he simply didn’t.
It’s an easy mistake. Anyone could’ve done it.
Hence the rename from Twitter – more five-dimensional chess from that crafty bastard.
Ah, the old Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal gambit.
I worked at a company (as briefly as possible) where an advisor came in and did this. He started listing off who we actually needed to pay on our rotating debts and who we could put off and how long. When I left, within 3 months several very important vendors were calling asking if I could do anything to help them out. I told them if they stopped sending supplies that would probably help the process.
Our dumb CFO held every 100k payment to motherfucking AWS until they were threatening to cut off our service during the next 24h. It was incredible to watch. Or perhaps this is perfectly normal in the absolutely abnormal corpo life.
To think a bunch of C students get an MBA to spread this trash and collect consulting fees and I just thought working hard would let to success.
I told them if they stopped sending supplies that would probably help the process.
Somebody running a business actually needed to be told this?
Many sub contractors live on the mercy of the companies they supply. That forces them to show more goodwill than they want.
I remember a couple years back when Ericsson unilaterally decided that they would stop paying their bills after a month and instead changed it to three months. So, do you want to piss off the biggest company in the region or do you just say “Thank you, sir”?
As an aside, what kind of amoral sod goes around teaching companies what bills they can ignore and how morally bankrupt must you be to listen to them?
Capitalism has no moral component. In fact, quite the opposite in its purest form.
When your neck is on the chopping block anyway, I guess you see how long you can spin out your last words.
Tomorrow is a better day to die
Elon Musk’s alleged penchant for not paying bills is catching up with him.
Citation required. It’s not having any effect on him personally, the businesses are the ones which are affected. And when you’re not depending on your businesses to eat and live, there are zero consequences.
They’re all his shitty decisions, but as usual, he doesn’t pay for it. The profits are privatised while the losses are socialised. And I’m pretty sick of the media counting eggs before they hatch, because they usually don’t hatch at all.
Elon Musk’s alleged penchant for not paying bills is catching up with him.
Citation required.
Not paying rent for Boulder office:
https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/14/twitter-is-being-evicted-from-its-boulder-office-over-unpaid-rent/Not paying rent for San Francisco office:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/01/twitters-landlord-sues-for-millions-in-unpaid-rent-at-firms-us-headquarters/Not paying consulting firm:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/01/twitter-hired-experts-for-case-against-musk-now-musk-wont-pay-them-lawsuit-says/Not paying interest on loan:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/01/looming-twitter-interest-payment-leaves-elon-musk-with-unpalatable-options/Yes, the business he bought (with not only his money) has been sued and evicted. The only time Musk has personally ever been on the hook was when he tried to wriggle out of buying said business, and the business sued him personally. Otherwise, he can walk away consequence-free from everything else.
Yes, the business he bought (with not only his money)
That’s literally part of the problem. He hadn’t paid interest on the loan he took out to buy Twitter.
But also, he was CEO when these things all happened. He is the one who made the decisions not to make payments toward rent on two of his offices, toward his loan, or toward his consulting firm. I’m not sure what sort of mental gymnastics you’re doing to say that he isn’t responsible for these things. Twitter wasn’t having those problems pre-Musk, and is only having these problems as a direct result of Musk’s decision-making. That’s kinda part of what being a CEO entails.
Not sure why one would ask for citations and then dismiss them.
They aren’t saying he pays his bills, they’re saying there are effectively no consequences for him personally every time he does it. He’s not the one footing the bill for these Xitter lawsuits, it’s his company.
He privately owns Twitter, so he can do whatever he wants with it.
The issue is that he took out billions of dollars in Tesla stock loans to cover the Twitter sale, so if Twitter fails and the people that gave him cash ask for the cash back: he has to hand over his collateral, which is largely his controlling stake in Tesla.
Yes, but he’s also the sole owner of the company. They went private after the acquisition, so there are no more shareholders. It’s his company now, so he is the one directly responsible for it at this point.
If you’re the sole owner of a taco truck and you crash into an orphanage with it, you are responsible, not the LLC you registered.
LLC literally means Limited Liability Company.
The owners of the LLC are protected from some or all liability for acts and debts of the LLC, depending on state shield laws.
When it comes into crashing into an orphanage, that’s definitely some and not all.
I think they meant citation required for the “is catching up with him” part.
He is paying for it, because he spent tens of billions on something that is now worth much less. Maybe he doesn’t care, but he is still paying for it.
If I lit your house on fire you wouldn’t spend much time arguing that it doesn’t hurt you directly, just your personal property
That would be a key difference between personal property and private property. Not that I own my own house.
Even if Musk was at personal risk of losing the entire amount of money Twitter cost, which he isn’t, it would have no effect on his ability to live or conduct business.
I haven’t yet seen an article where a reporter totals up the numbers and associated dollar amounts associated with Musk’s mismanagement. In terms of general classes - and I’m just going off the top of my head here - we’re looking at (including only the twitter related ones):
- Failure to pay agreed upon payouts for fired employees
- Age discriminatory termination lawsuits
- Violation of employment contracts re: return to work and other conditions
- Failure to pay rents and infrastructure fees
- Failure to moderate content according to legally required regulations
- Allocation of TSLA employees to work at Twitter, a different company with different shareholders, thus robbing Peter to pay Paul on investors’ dimes
There were also potential suits over mass terminations contrary to state and national laws, but I haven’t heard as much about those recently.
In the event that Twitter files for bankruptcy, would it partially shield them from all that debt? Yeah, it’s a dirty play and would totally expect Elon to do it if he could.
its so much worse than just that. there are so many financial mechanisms to avoid liability its not even funny. most of the unwashed are unfamiliar with them because they are specifically written to keep rich people rich.
money flows to the top, accountability… not so much. and that is 100% the design.
the twist here is a callous, idiotic billionaire using this lack of responsibility for his own enjoyment. he will never, ever personally suffer for any of the harm caused to all humans affected by his terrible business practices. he is shielded by money, or what we call money these days.
twitter will cost him billions in personal funds when it goes under, and it will not affect him at all.
Imagine the headlines. World’s richest man files for bankruptcy.
That’s the funny part, he won’t. It’s Twitter that will as it is a separate entity.
That’s the funny part, he won’t. It’s X that will as it is a separate entity.
I am a free speech absolutist and I am saying Twitter. Prepare to be banned from the entire Fediverse.
I still don’t understand why no one has just pushed this guy out a window yet.
I don’t mean this as a threat, but as plain kinetic question. How do billionaires stay so safe with so many enemies? It’s a bit baffling to me. Security is fascinating to me.
In this present day, we’re barely steps or even a half step away from having absolutely tyrannically-dictator type behaviors from billionaires. It’s almost as bad as the Roman Emperors that were batshit crazy, and their own Praetorian Guard eventually took those motherfuckers out. It baffles me how we had Presidential assassination attempts as recently as the 80’s in the US but wasting billionaires just isn’t a thing. It’s very amazing power structure.
Zuckerberg spends about $30 million per year on personal security, I would guess the rest of the billionaires do the same.
That’s really modest too by comparison. Current presidents average around 1.5 billion per year give or take.
That seems high, according to this the cost to protect the entire trump family was $120 million:
https://time.com/4762234/congress-donald-trump-security-costs-trump-tower/
It’s because people like this around themselves with a cadre of yes men. Apparently Elon is known to have a large group of Tesla and SpaceX groupies essentially. To use them to replace key positions at X.
On that’s easy, it’s because he’s still on Putin’s good side.
As to why no one has… encouraged him into any other “mysterious accident”, though, your guess is as good as mine.
Because you don’t get your money back if you kill him. That’s why the mob just breaks kneecaps.
No you just put a cut on the end of their pointer finger on their dominant hand. That way every time they touch something it reminds them who their money belongs to. You save kneecapping for someone who you’ve lost all hope of paying you back and now their value to you is as an example for others.
… you sound like you have experience
He took a big loan from the Saudis to pay for Twitter, so that could still happen.
Not out of a window I guess. They have other style.
They use the loan saw.
Out of multiple windows
I’m sure they’ll take opportunities where they can get them.
Doesn’t he walk around the twitter headquarters surrounded by his own security.
X just might mark the spot for treasure here
X is not gonna give it to ya
So was the rebranding of Twitter to X just so Elon could say “U fuckin’ wot m8? This company is X, and your employment contract is with Twitter, so it looks like you were never employed here.”?
Fortunately that doesn’t work.
Even if Musk totally shut down Twitter, then opened an identical platform named X, the contracts Twitter held are still enforceable under the law.
There might be stipulations in the contracts where severance isn’t payable if the company fails, but if I remember correctly, this severance is something mandated by state law, and not just a contractual perk.
So bottom line, Musk is liable unless his lawyers are able to worm their way into a settlement.
So bottom line, Musk is liable unless his lawyers are able to worm their way into a settlement.
Sure, but this is a guy who signed a contract forcing him to purchase Twitter and thought he could just say “I don’t want to anymore.”
Couldnt happen to a nicer dbag
he couldn’t care less, he’s worth 95 Billion more now than when he purchased Twitter, the cruelty is the point
Smart. Flush money down the toilet trying to impersonate Trump by not paying your bills. Maybe he should run for president.
Thankfully he can’t.
Tell that to the Canadian, Ted Cruz.
As unfortunate as it is, he is still a natural citizen thanks to who his parents are.
I’m sure he wouldn’t mind publicly releasing his long form birth certificate?
I promise I’m fun at parties, but you’re a decade late to that request. Again, I’m not defending Totally A Human Ted Cruz, just pointing out the facts.
https://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/ted-cruz-birth-certificate-095668
And in true birther fashion I will claim that it’s a forgery and that you are a fraud!
This sounds like purposeful sabotage, but then again I’ve been saying that daily since Musk took over.
Waiting like this was smart. Unfortunately.
Options:
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Stall as long as possible. Twitter makes a bunch of money. Have money to pay severances. All good.
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Twitter fails anyways. No money to pay anybody but had as long a runway as possible. Bankrupt and a financial guy nominated by a judge sorts it out.
When a company files for bankruptcy, employees who are owed money get first dibs on the liquidated assets.
Surprisingly, you’ve shifted my opinion. Gdi.
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What’s that come out to, around? 4 weeks pay per employee?
Well, minimum 2 months per employee plus the 4 weeks. Let’s figure an average salary of $80k. 6000 employees with an average tenure of 4 years. Let’s go ahead and round that to 3 months salary. So he’s paying the equivalent of 1500 employee’s average salary. That works out to about $120m.
I think my salary estimate is low there, and I have no idea what the tenure of the employees would be. Either way, not a small sum for a company that’s barely treading water.
I am gyessing that engineers at Twitter were probably making around $150k per year, give or take.
I would guess 150-250k.
Twitter was known for lower pay (and a lower pace) than the big names, but it’s still the bay area.
That’s probably more accurate.
$80k/year*.25year*2200 = $44m in this case, though like you said your salary estimate is probably low
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1500 = 6000 employees multiplied by 0.25 already. No need to multiply with .25 again.
I could be mistaken, but I think the severance was three months when he bought the company.
So 12 weeks? That’s a big chunk of change. Not much to him, though.
Yeah, you’d think so. But apparently it is since he hasn’t paid anyone.
Yeah this mofo is sitting on mountains of cash and like Trump, he just doesn’t pay his bills.
Literally the post:
… X is facing some 2,200 arbitration cases filed by ex-employees, which come with $3.5 million in required fees-an amount that doesn’t even include the actual severance owed to those Musk let go.
That didn’t answer the question
Considering that number isn’t the amount of severance pay, it kinda did.
They were asking about the severance pay though? Did you reply to the wrong comment?
The way the comments read, they were asking if the amount that was given ($3.5mm) was for severance. I am pointing out that it is not, that it’s for fees only.
That’s the penalties, not the amount owed to the employees.
Exactly.
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