- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
Just because Republicans choose unreality doesn’t mean the media should ignore the facts of January 6.
On January 6, 2021, I watched CNN as thousands of Donald Trump supporters stormed the US Capitol. As someone well-versed in watching tragedy on television, I was struck by just how indisputable the facts were at the time: violent, red-hat-clad MAGA rioters, followed by Republicans in Congress, tried to stop democracy in its tracks. Trump had told his followers that the protest in Washington, DC, “will be wild,” and in the assault that followed his speech, some rioters smeared feces on the walls of the Capitol. Hundreds of them have since been convicted on charges ranging from assault on federal officers to seditious conspiracy. These are stubborn facts, the kind that do not care about your feelings. These facts include the inalienable truth that Trump is the first president in American history to reject the peaceful transfer of power.
It never occurred to me that these facts could somehow be perverted by partisanship. But three years later, we are seeing just that, as Republicans cling to the lie that the 2020 election was “stolen” by Joe Biden and are poised to make Trump their 2024 nominee. And perhaps even more dangerous than the GOP ditching reality is the news media’s inability to cover Trumpism as the threat to democracy that it very much is.
…
But the problem is, when all you have is conventional political framing, everything looks like politics as usual. One candidate makes a claim; the other disputes it. Two sides are divided, etc. This framing only works if both parties operate within the frameworks of a shared reality. But Trumpism doesn’t allow for the reality the rest of us inhabit. Trump’s supporters believe their leader’s reality and not, say, the reality the rest of us see with our eyes. As Trump once told a crowd: “Don’t believe the crap you see from these people, the fake news. What you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening.”
Journalists may be well-intentioned in trying to be “objective,” or they’re simply afraid of being labeled partisan. Either way, coverage of January 6 that gives equal weight to both sides—one based in reality, one not—is helping pave the road for authoritarianism.
Try telling this to the “gEnOciDE jOe” clowns, because they are the ones that need to understand this- not the trumpers. Trumpers are too far gone. They won’t listen to reason.
But these ‘single issue’ kids that are grassrooting the ideology that not voting is better than a vote for “genocide” are going to fuck around and find out the hard way when they get Trump installed as a permanent fixture in the White House.
Ok, let me preface this by OF COURSE Biden is by far the lesser evil compared to Trump, OF COURSE single issue voting is some Republican style bullshit and OF COURSE Trump would be even more supportive of a fascist government committing genocide, being a fascist war crime fanboy himself.
That being said, people who are outraged by Biden’s continued support of and thus enabling of genocide DO have a point. He’s supposed to represent the interests of every American who’s not a fascist, not those of a fascist apartheid regime currently committing the worst genocide since the Balkan wars in the 90s.
Just because the other guy is a much greater evil doesn’t mean that you can’t hold your own guy accountable for supporting evil. With Trump the only alternative, voting for him is a given, but giving him a free pass shouldn’t be.
Criticizing Biden’s handling of the war is not just allowed, but encouraged. His handling of it is dog shit.
What’s naive and stupid to do is refuse to vote for him because of it, when the threat is a person who bragged about becoming a dictator and retaliating against anyone he dislikes.
It’s neat how you completely ignored the entire first paragraph of the comment.
Uh, what we are talking about is people who are already saying they won’t vote for Biden. I run into this a lot. It’s terrifying to know a significant part of the electorate are so myopic they would install Trump forever to “make a point”.
It truly doesn’t matter if they have a point, if the only end result is not voting or throwing their vote away on a third party. If Trump wins, they will be a big part of how.
“voting is the only way to create change” is the mentality that got us here.
You know why George Floyd’s murderer was the only one who got the sentence he deserved? Because the people demanded it by threatening capital.
So what are you suggesting?
You know exactly what he’s suggesting and he’s probably right to do so.
Stop playing stupid and stop trying to shut down people who say such things. It’s not gonna work, you’re not gonna convince anyone to not fight for what they believe in, hit the road if you don’t like it.
These guys all want violent revolution, right up until it’s their time to pick up a rifle.
I think what the morons want is trump. I’m really worried about how common this braindead opinion is. They’re actually going to vote against Biden because of Israel. We’re fucked.
If you’re that worried that reaction to our government enabling a genocide is risking the election or whatever, maybe blame the people doing the enabling rather than the people disgusted by them.
These guys all want violent revolution, right up until it’s their time to pick up a rifle.
“These guys” could just be foreign conflict bots, trying to promote mayhem.
“Everyone who is less than ecstatic about the genocide I love can’t possibly be genuine. It must be an international conspiracy because no one could possibly oppose genocide.”
That people need to start by stopping this “only voting matters” narrative that so many push. I know people try to counter that by saying that people are overworked and don’t have time for protests or any other direct action, but the Labor Movement was done by people working 70ish hour weeks.
More people need to be willing to protest. Until they are, things aren’t going to meaningfully get better.
Right now, the message I get from a lot of these conversations here is that the President is allowed to have a little genocide as a treat because otherwise there could be more genocide. It’s completely insane.
Right now, the message I get from a lot of these conversations here is that the President is allowed to have a little genocide as a treat because otherwise there could be more genocide. It’s completely insane.
No you don’t
Anyone insisting that the only way to move forward is to vote for someone who is promoting genocide is effectively saying that, yes.
I wouldn’t say it’s completely insane.
It’s a modification of the trolley problem. The “do nothing” path goes downhill and has a hell of a lot more bodies. The switched path still has bodies but at least it’s uphill and you’ll have a chance to slow it down or stop it.
Who said to do nothing? I’m saying this path is also terrible.
We as a people, and specifically the commenters who insist these are the only options, are consciously choosing between the two paths that lead to genocide. We are specifically saying we are too comfortable and indifferent to demand the changes to prevent it.
That’s insane.
It’s terrifying to know a significant part of the electorate are so myopic they would install Trump forever to “make a point”.
People don’t like being manipulated to vote a certain way, they get angry when that is done to them. They realize that other citizens had died for their right to vote, and they hold it sacred.
And when you’re angry, you tend to make dumb mistakes.
How many of us know the stance of the people they’re going to vote for, when it comes to ranked choice voting?
As long as we are drawing the line in the sand as “reality” the truth is much more stark. We already live in a nation controlled by oligarchs and the vote has already been robbed of what little power it ever had. In a sense accelerationism isn’t so much accelerating the decline of US democracy but accelerating its suspended funeral.
It’s not just ‘throwing the baby away with the bath water ‘, it’s burning down the whole fucking country just because mommy didn’t give you candy.
Where “mommy didn’t give you candy” in this case is “the guy you’re being screamed at to vote for is supporting genocide.”
Just because you don’t think genocide is a big deal, that doesn’t mean you don’t need the votes of those that do.
I’m voting for Biden, but that doesn’t mean I don’t recognize that some people won’t, and that his support for genocide is the reason.
can’t hold your own guy accountable for supporting evil.
How? The DNC doesn’t listen to us, writing our reps is basically a waste of time and paper unless you like collecting robosigned form letter replies from political offices.
Fuck trump in every way and if there is any justice left in this world cheetolini will rot in a cell for the rest of his life, to be clear.
That said, we have 40 years of congressional voting patterns that PROVE they only listen to ‘the people’ about 20% of the time.
So how? How do we hold him accountable? By making meme posts and tiktoks?
Yes I am MUCH happier that Biden won and I will be voting for him again, but let’s not pretend we aren’t in an oligarchy controlled by wealthy families.
Yes the Dems do a bit better of a job helping the citizens, but not nearly enough and not in the ways needed most.
We NEED to get rid of first past the post voting, we NEED to get money out of politics.
Until that happens, we will ALWAYS be stuck choosing the lesser evil and our wealth will continue to be shuffled up to the already disgustingly rich.
I don’t know how the US could change it’s voting system. It’s so carved into the national identity with the constitution. It’s a big change. I see us in the UK more likely to change our voting system before the US.
Maine is already switched to Ranked Choice voting. I agree its a big change, but if you had told me 20 years ago that I could legally buy weed in a boutique store in New York City someday, I’d have told you basically the same thing.
writing our reps is basically a waste of time and paper unless you like collecting robosigned form letter replies from political offices.
It’s actually not, they track it. It’s important to know voter sentiment so the competent members of Congress actually keep track of the issues people write about and their positions on them. In terns of response, I’m not sure if you know how many people an average Congressmember has and how much mail they get, but if everyone including the Congressmember spent all day individually responding to every letter they got (most of which are form complaints), they would get even less done. The form response is (again, if the member is at all competent) usually slightly modified from a form response because, frankly, why would you have a different response to the same question every time? The response reads all political because it has to, they’re writing for a broad audience and they don’t know you.
They probably are listening to the people who write them, who tend to skew older and have more time on their hands to do so, so are likely more conservative or status quo. There are issues the Dems will shift on if they see that’s where the wind is blowing. Also, if you have a specific local issue, don’t write to DC, write to the local office. They actually have people dedicated to helping with state and local concerns.
All well and good, but these idiot kids are actually refusing to vote for him over this single issue. I agree that It’s fine to be bothered how he’s handling things- even if they’re a bit misunderstood on how things actually work- I mean, sure…it’s bothering.
But this is the biggest “I’m cutting off my nose to spite my face” America will EVER see.
Single issue lmao. “Yeah Hitler did genocide but that’s just a single issue”
OK dude.
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You’re sure showing them by directly endorsing their Genocide policies.
Right, how could someone not want to vote for someone because they support genocide? How ludicrous.
I’ll still vote for Biden because I’ll already be in the booth, but sitting back and acting like this is our only option is nonsense.
Voting alone does not create change. Labor Movement, Women’s Suffrage, Civil Rights, all were accomplished by active resistance and here you are spouting nonsense about how we should all just participate in the system that’s circling the drain instead of disrupting it.
The longer you all take to come around the worse it will get, no matter which major party is in the Oval Office.
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I’ll still vote for Biden
You idiots are going to find out pretty quick why you should have voted
Centrists would rather lecture than listen.
I literally said I’d vote for him.
Your inability to actually discuss the argument instead of just simping for your genocidal Uncle Joe is pathetic.
People wonder how average Germans allowed the Nazi party to go so far. We are talking about literal fucking genocide and you come in here and says “but it’s the best version of genocide we got” while throwing up your hands and immediately insulting anyone who complains.
It’s no wonder things keep going so far when we continue lowering the bar and there’s still simps willing to lecture people while their Party helps commit mass murder.
I love how readily you dehumanized the people getting killed over there so you could easily suck the Dems. Typical liberal.
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no one calls me a kid any more, and this single issue is the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Okay kid. I’m sure your vote for Trump is appreciated.
i’m probably gonna be voting for cornel west, actually.
Like I said, I’m sure your vote for Trump is greatly appreciated.
I’m voting against Trump, actually
If we want to win, we need to appeal to people who disagree with your support for genocide, no matter how much you hate them.
So your solution is to make it easier for Trump to win? You know that would make things even worse?
If only there was a democratic process to choose the Democratic nomination for president… Man, that would be such a great idea. I wonder why no one thought of it?
THE SOLUTION WOULD BE TO HAVE A FUCKING PRIMARY, and not, you know un-democratically ban other candidates for the nomination in 10% of the states, so far.
You’re the ones with a genocidal candidate you want everyone else to vote for. It’s your job to find a solution to get people to vote for him, if you don’t want to have a contest to decide who people would vote for as the democratic nomination.
The only thing that is making it easier for Trump to win is Biden’s unwavering support for the genocide centrists have evidently always wanted.
Do you realize that the war won’t stop with the orangeoutan right?
You misspelled ‘genocide’ as ‘war’
For the love of fuck, how many times do I have to tell you genocide supporters that I don’t support Trump?
Nobody hates you, we’re just sick of idealists in a time when we need pragmatists.
If you actually believed that, and weren’t an idealist centrism and genocide yourself, you would pragmatically demand a primary to choose a candidate who could win and not try and demand unearned votes through shaming.
You’re as pragmatic as a college kid carrying around a dog-eared copy of ‘Atlas Shrugged’
Well said.
I’m sick of genocide
Do you think any person elected to the presidency wouldn’t continue supporting Israel? To cut off funding and weapons to Israel would be absolute political suicide in this country. Don’t care if it’s Biden, Trump, Desantis, doesn’t matter. Israel will continue to get $Billions and weapons. It’s just the way it is.
Do you think any person elected to the presidency wouldn’t continue supporting Israel?
cornel west and jill stein would.
Those pesky idealists… being opposed to checks notes literal fucking genocide.
I’m voting for Biden and you don’t care. You just want unquestioning support for the genocide you support.
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The people who can find a way to excuse, minimize or ignore Biden’s military and political support for genocide could probably find a way to excuse, minimize or ignore just about anything. There is no bottom, only partisanship and convenience.
Sure, but if you’re planning on sticking around in America, or care about its influence worldwide, shouldn’t you at least try to steer it towards the least worst option?
The only people who have influence around here are the wealthy and corporations. I don’t think two choices between two old genocidal men is the best example of saving democracy, as you can tell people still suffered and died under the “harm reduction” guy.
So just do nothing then. That’ll show em both!
Well get to pushing Biden left. I’m sure it will work out this time.
the least worst option is cornel west.
youth have always voted in low numbers, fuck em and their shitpost memes.
I strongly suspect that these one issue kids have no idea of what is going on in the Mideast
Israel was attacked by Hamas and Hezbollah. The over the top response by Netanyahu is much like you would get from the orange wanna-be dictator. Israel is under threat by Iran too. The arms sent were a show of force least any other hostile countries decide to pile on. Biden has been forceful with Israel behind the scenes, placing conditions on the use of the arms and pushing Israel to back off. He can’t do so publicly because it would let the hostile countries sense a weakness. Kids are triggered by emotions and fail to dig for news contrary to their biases because it doesn’t reinforce their need for an anger dopamine rush - much like MAGAs.
It is so much easier to sit on ones ass rather than to do the hard work of being intelligently informed and to create change“I look with commiseration over the great body of my fellow citizens who, reading newspapers, live and die in the belief they have known something of what has been passing in the world around them” - Harry Truman
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There is nothing nuanced about the indiscriminate slaughter of 1% of the Gazan population. So far. Trying to create nuance around genocide, is genocide denial. Nothing more.
To you “Never Again” meant “Never Again, unless…”
Also, I can’t believe you’d use a Harry Truman quote. Dude was so fucking stupid, even he knew how unprepared for the job he was. He was literally elected Senator because the local Democratic power broker couldn’t find anyone else willing to be his man in the Senate.
Also, not a fucking kid. I’m 40 fucking years old, and I see the same stupid Democratic party leaders making the same fucking mistake and being shocked when the same thing happens. Fucking boomers, who are unwilling to give up power until it is pried from their stupid, lead-tainted, selfish fucking dead hands.
Biden has been forceful with Israel behind the scenes, placing conditions on the use of the arms and pushing Israel to back off. He can’t do so publicly because it would let the hostile countries sense a weakness.
Neat fanfic. He hasn’t done any of this at all.
Exactly. Their “genocide” is a knee-jerk sensationalist reaction to the typical extremist news they’re used to reading. It’s almost always a lot more nuanced than it appears.
As I like to say, life exists within the grey area that lies between the boundaries of black-and-white ideologies.
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Centrists will abandon literally any position except their support for genocide.
Actually, its part if a Palestinian campaign to destroy Israel. Israel did offer a two state solution multiple times. Its the Palestinians that reject the right of Israel to exist, not the other way around.
Sacrificing their own population to gain support doesn’t make them right.
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Well put. But right now, folks who agree are missing the nuance and going to stay home. So not the time for intellectualizing to the choir. Let’s just stop saying the quiet part aloud already. We all fucking know what the DNC is. Enough is enough. Can we have a fucking conversation about Trump and autocracy and Nazis without a fucking comment about Biden? You’re just regurgitating the both sides bullshit with an asterisk that you’ll vote, but the people reading are just doubling down not voting. Stop giving this oxygen. It’s enough.
This is correct. I despise Trump. When I voted for Biden, I understood I was voting for a 1 term president to allow Democrats 4 years to get their house in order. They haven’t and they don’t intend to.
The truth is that a vote for shit or slightly less shit is still shit. We’ve allowed two mega corporations in the DNC and RNC to monopolize our politics.
The only solution is a 3rd party. Voting for Biden or Trump just keeps the shit rolling. Sucks that Democrats might have a Ross Perot moment with Trump on the ballot, but they had time to bring up anyone else to fill the role, and they didn’t. I have the luxury of living in Tennessee, so my vote doesn’t matter, something else they promised to fix and didn’t. But anyone who wants to call me an idealist or pearl clutcher needs to wake up.
The truth is that a vote for shit or slightly less shit is still shit
Oh look, the same tired old “both sides” bullshit.
Ok, let me preface this by OF COURSE Biden is by far the lesser evil compared to Trump, OF COURSE single issue voting is some Republican style bullshit and OF COURSE Trump would be even more supportive of a fascist government committing genocide, being a fascist war crime fanboy himself.
If you hadn’t prefixed your comment with this, centrists who can’t defend their enthusiastic support for genocide for its own sake would be calling you a trumpist.
Yeah, I know from vast experience 😮💨
You’ll notice that you have to disclaim for a whole paragraph about how Biden is better than Trump, which of course he is, but no centrist has to similarly disclaim that they even dislike genocide at all.
Because none of them do.
Nothing about understanding the danger Trump poses makes you a “centrist” or “enthusiastic support” for genocide. Please grow up.
Nothing about questioning Biden’s support for genocide means I want Trump to win. But you’ll ignore that I’m voting for Biden as long as you never have to examine your love for genocide for its own sake.
Yep. If donnie gets back in there, do these purity ponies think unquestioning support of Israel will stop?
Centrists look down on people for disliking genocide.
Maybe go fuck yourselves and go third party or arrange your own special assassination attempt. I’m not jumping on your party bandwagon for the fear mongering.
A vote for Biden is a vote for Trump ya bum.
Imagine actually believing that lmfao
It’s what you guys sound like. Eat your own bullshit.
Idk about you specifically.
So you admit he’s complicit in aiding a genocide, yet refuse to be principled enough to hold him accountable?
Why would centrists hold anyone accountable for doing what they want?
Just wanted to make sure they know they have no convictions.
I would rather not vote than vote for someone whose first response to a genocide is rushing as many American military assets and weapons as possible to enable it.
You do realize that not everyone in your country has fully assimilated to your extremely chauvinist worldview right?
What’s chauvinist about not wanting to make a bad situation worse?
It’s the orientation that enabling a genocide is somehow excusable when it’s “your guy”, combined with the implicit understanding that something to do with foreign policy (itself a chauvinist term) shouldn’t affect how people vote when bad things at home are at stake. Like it’s sports or something.
I’m sensitive to this because I just don’t have the luxury of disregarding what happens to brown and brown-adjacent people as a result of US “foreign policy”. The bad situation we’re in is directly the result of decisions made (and being refused to get made) by our harm reduction president and his administration.
It’s the orientation that enabling a genocide is somehow excusable when it’s “your guy”,
No it’s not. Voting for someone doesn’t mean you think they’re ok.
Voting for someone doesn’t mean you think they’re ok.
I get that people are capable of doing that, but I don’t find the party which is completely unreachable on the genocide they’re participating in as a credible alternative to the openly fascist party.
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The “gEnOcIDe JoE” clowns see a Republican fascist and a Democrat skirting our political system to fund fascists, backed by a party doing nothing to stop fascists from taking over every system in the country cause all the broken shit being used is broken shit the dems use too.
As long as dems tell anyone left of Biden to eat shit regardless of what their “voters” say, voting blue “no matter who” doesn’t stop the march to fascism, it just delays it by 4 years.
As a trans person, another four years is probably another four years of being allowed to be alive. I fucking hate dems but I love being not being murdered. It sucks that my options are vote for the folks who will let brown kids die, or vote for the folks who will let brown kids die AND kill me. My vote doesn’t actually matter because my state will be redder than Zhang Yufang’s tampons, admittedly.
If every person who cries about how the two options sucked voted for a third party we’d have a viable flourishing third party. Maybe a fourth by now.
Cool story, now show us a historical precedent for that happening.
“Nobody’s done it so it can’t be done cHeKmAtE lOoSeRz now vote for the guy who sidestepped congress to fund genocide instead of the guy who wants to sidestep congress to commit genocide!”
I’m sure conservatives will appreciate their help in November.
You keep furiously masturbating to this quick easy textual “sound bite” but nobody can actually refute the point that a vote for dems is just a vote for fascists to continue amassing power in the background to do the thing next time.
It’s weird how y’all want the fascism but just harp about democrats in a bid to avoid the label. Any vote for either established party is a vote for Trump or the next faschie, full stop.
did you read what they wrote?
liberal democracies are incubators for fascism.
Yeah I’m perfectly aware.
So are democrats, but we’re not allowed to address the explicit elephant in the room because democrats think hurting faschie feelings is equal to fascism. So I’ll ask what I asked elsewhere in this thread -
What are democrats doing to stop them besides just keeping them from doing it for 4 more years (while faschies continue unimpeded by democrats fucking everything from the local up in the meantime?)
Hunter S. Thompson reflected on the problems with Objective Journalism throughout his career: summarized well in a section of his obituary for Nixon.
Some people will say that words like scum and rotten are wrong for Objective Journalism — which is true, but they miss the point. It was the built-in blind spots of the Objective rules and dogma that allowed Nixon to slither into the White House in the first place. He looked so good on paper that you could almost vote for him sight unseen. He seemed so all-American, so much like Horatio Alger, that he was able to slip through the cracks of Objective Journalism. You had to get Subjective to see Nixon clearly, and the shock of recognition was often painful.
Oh God… even back then it was called out jfc we’re doomed
On the other hand, that was a while ago, and we are still going…
While dealing with the same fucks that were behind Reagan
That doesn’t mean much. It took centuries for Rome to fall, and all the while they spoke as if they were the greatest civilization to ever exist.
I see it clearly in this country too. The performative fealty to patriotism - God Bless America, USA! USA! USA!, Greatest Country on Earth, and so on… it’s the same as the Romans who thought their empire would carry on into eternity as the columns crumbled around them.
We are all frogs in a pot of tepid water, slowly being brought to a boil.
But that’s fine, embrace the end! Rome was a slave society with incredible wealth disparity. They massacred people for entertainment. They conscripted guys for like 20 years to plunder and collect taxes that went mostly to the very top, the richest of families. Good riddance.
My point was more about how a great empire can fall without the common people ever realizing it because they are blinded by hubris, not really an endorsement of the Romans and their society.
Why sober, thoughtful conversation like this is not happening is beyond insane to me. Like I just do not know how to deal with a reality that treats this as normal.
Well said, I agree with every word.
The downfall of American democracy, like all democracies is lack of protection for its principles. If democracy becomes so radical about the principle of freedom of expression that there is no utterance that isn’'t worthy debating, no matter how debased it is while at the same time anything and everything is up for debate and nothing enshrined in principle democracy becomes its own worst enemy. Freedom of expression becomes the tool with which it destroys itself.
The crux however lies in the fact that if institutions exist that protect democracy from itself, like the Austrian “Verfassungsschutz” , that watch the radical ends of the political spectrum and hamper their political efforts, sometimes trying and convicting individuals as members of a criminal organisation they could easily be accused as stifling democracy.
Ultimately the democratic principle rests upon its subjects willingness to practise it and to participate in it. If enough people are unhappy or uneducated enough to believe in the statements of demagogues and radicals its downfall cannot be stopped by institutionalized violence, political will, or anything else. Democracy cannot defend itself against its own worst enemy: People that for some reason or other have given up on that idea. Democracy therefore will always come with its own 5th column.
What makes a working democracy is that everyone is actively participating in the dicourse and does what they can to stop the 5th column from rising to the top. A working democracy depends on a working educational system that produces strong critical minds. It relies on making sure everyone gets their share and that each and every subject has a stake in a system. Then the 5th Column is small enough to not really damage democracy and there is no instituion necessary to protect it.
These days however the world is far beyond that tipping point. There are enough people unhappy enough with democracy that collective supression no longer works. And its troublesome to watch. I am terrified that someone like Donald Trump could even get to the point where he is the presidential candidate for a major party, let alone serve a term as president of the United States.
Usually these sentiments are met with endless barrages of whataboutism… Literally no one, no matter what they have done with their emails or how many lobal conflicts they started in their term could be a worse president then someone whose aim is to just aimlessly wield power like a European monarch whose mind is impaired by the hereditary conditions that come with generations of incest.
Modern European Monarchs are all significantly better than Trump.
So we’re fucked then. Royally and truly fucked.
To demonstrate the inability of conventional media to cover an extremist like Trump, this article points out that the New York Times once ran an article titled “Hitler Tamed By Prison”. The article, published in 1924, starts off with a disturbing parallel to recent events:
Adolph Hitler, once the demi-god of the reactionary extremists, was released on parole from imprisonment at Fortress Landsberg, Bavaria, today and immediately left in an auto for Munich.
Look no further than the New York Times falsifying an entire article about Hamas raping women to manufacture consent for israel’s Genocide.
So I’m unfamiliar with mondoweiss.net. The Media Bias Factcheck page on this source rates it as questionable. Is there another credible source for these claims?
Sure. The direct family members that NYT falsified testimonies for. On TV programs. On social media.
That article is filled to the brim with evidence. It’s all in there with links.
You don’t have to just take their word for it like the New York Times.
You will need a different source. That one is dodgy as fuck. We don’t fight right wing disinformation by trotting out disinformation of our own, so unless you can come up with a better source, no one should take your claim seriously.
The source has plenty of evidence inside of the article and is fully backed up by evidence of TV interviews, Haaretz articles, links to the family members whose interviews were falsified speaking out on social media. Even the IDF investigations evidence of the state of the bodies have shown to contradict these statements. No women were found beheaded or with their breasts cut off either.
I don’t care about what you perceive “dodgy as fuck”. The only thing that is dodgy as fuck is NYT publishing a Hamas rape fanfic as an article, that now has confirmed lies while providing exactly zero evidence except witness statements, which have now being debunked by multiple of the quotes people they supposedly “interviewed”.
They’re doing what they’ve always done, trying to get money. This shouldn’t be a shock.
Damn right! It’s about time a publication in (the outskirts of) the main stream points this out!
The establishment media and the Dem politicians insisting on pretending that the GOP is a legitimate party of regular conservatives rather than a fascist movement is how it was allowed to get this far in the first place!
But facism gets such great short turn proffits before we blow ourselves and the rest of nature to shit. /s
It’s not a both sides thing. In my opinion, everyone needs to stop thinking this is a knowledge or coverage problem. It’s not a media influence problem.
It’s a fuck you problem. And the worse they are, the more appalling their actions, the bigger the fuck you. You can’t argue your way out of this.
People need to deal with the fact that roughly half of all voters in this country don’t give a fuck about you, and every time you get upset about a new rule broken, a new law violated, or a new constitutional principle ignored, the fun is in the fact that you get upset about it.
That’s the fun. You’re mad. They like to make you mad. Because this isn’t about political discourse.
They’re way more mad, they’re way more organized, they’re way more revolutionary, and they are way more armed. You can be as smart and knowledgeable as you want. They will put you up against a very smart and knowledgeable wall and put a very smart and knowledgeable bullet into your very smart and knowledgeable head.
You ever wonder how, during revolutions of the past, the people that were overthrown always seemed to have been surprised? This is how. Arrogance and a belief in a system that the others aren’t playing by or within. Revolution exceeds the system. Leftists think they have a monopoly on revolution, but they don’t.
You don’t have to agree with it. Your agreement or disagreement Does. Not. Matter. It’s watching worms on a hook trying to explain how soil works. Who cares?
People need to deal with the fact that roughly half of all voters in this country don’t give a fuck about you
There’s so much gerrymandering, vote caging, and deliberate disenfranchisement in the US that “roughly half” is heavily overstating it. Elections are decided by closer to 15% of eligible voters, as everyone else is packed or cracked or screened out of the process so as to be functionally irrelevant to the declared victor.
And this sentiment does go both ways. I can’t count how many times I’ve been told that I deserve whatever dogshit policy Ken Paxton and Greg Abbot are heaping on me today because I’ve committed the crime of living in a Red State.
This sentiment isn’t just confined to hotheads on social media either. When you’ve got guys like DeSantis and Paxton and Jay Ashcroft and Christie Noam flagrantly breaking state and national laws with zero response from the Biden DOJ, wtf do people expect some simple civvy like myself to do?
Leftists think they have a monopoly on revolution, but they don’t.
Leftists think they need a revolution to succeed, because reforms don’t work when the Right has the police on their side. And when you consider how many scalps J. Edgar Hoover had on his wall by the time he left office, you begin to see why.
The country is already deeply fascist. We have people living in relative (abet deteriorating) comfort who think we can just politely ask the next crop of politicos to fix problems for us. We have people living in far more dire circumstances who are scrambling to take direct action before they suffer irreparable harm. And then we have a large, heavily armed contingent of mercenaries who were taking selfies with the Jan 6th rioters not that long ago because they thought the Q-Shaman was making a lot of good points.
The Right doesn’t need to do a Revolution because they’re already the ones in control. The only real question is whether they decide Biden gets to keep his seat or Trump needs to be put back in charge come this November.
Boy I wish we could give Lemmy Gold to posts like this
Calling out the false “both sides” thing (h/t to The Professional Left, by the way!) is something that should be common currency in the “liberal media”.
Thanks to the silliness of false “objectivity” and, let’s be honest, corporatism, it is hardly ever discussed. But thank goodness Vanity Fair did here…however, they still called these treasonous insurrectionists (really: terrorists) “rioters”, FFS.
It’s useful to consider both sides of a political controversy when both sides actually fall within the realm of respecting and sustaining the democracy and social contract keeping people bought into it.
When the choices are between ‘you get some human rights’ and ‘you get no bodily autonomy’, one of these doesn’t fall within the bounds of reasonable discourse, where ‘reasonable discourse’ isn’t lighting the basis for democracy and individual rights on fire.
The exercise of gamely considering ‘both sides’ like it’s genuinely for the good of democracy when one side is actively hostile to democracy is… gaslighting, hostile to said democracy and to the social contract.
But there are two sides… There’s the citizens, who believe in the process and support the peaceful transfer of power, and there’s treasonous scum.
See? Two sides.
One should be voting later this year, the other should be found, prosecuted, and thrown in jail… Or at least have their rights to participate in a democratic election taken away. I’d prefer the former, but I’d settle for the latter.
There’s zero reason that anyone should continue to believe the election was stolen. The 2020 election was one of the most scrutinized and examined elections in recent history. I don’t know of another election with this much scrutiny. The fact is, “both sides” examined ballots and found the results were accurate; or at least didn’t have enough inaccuracies to change the outcome. Fact is, the current president was elected. He is president. To deny that, is to deny not only the election, but the multitude of recounts after the fact, both by Trump supporters and by the systems in place to perform such counts and recounts.
Biden can be “not your president” if you disagree with the decision. You didn’t vote for him, I get that you’re unhappy with the outcome. You’re free to say whatever you want about the president, short of threats of violence or physical harm (in which case, secret service may want a word with you). The fact remains he is the president of the United States of America, voted into office by the people of the USA. Saying he “stole” the election by defrauding the election system, at this point, is just delusional.
This misses the point completely, claiming they believe their own reality is ignoring just how deliberately dysfunctional all our reality is, and has been for centuries. Them being manipulated in to blaming minorities for it is the exact same distraction as liberals being manipulated in to blaming republican voters for it (Do they suck? Yes. Do they help uphold the system? Absolutely. Are they responsible for it? No, they are crabs in a bucket, just like the rest of us, they’re just happy to step on more people). To be clear - I am not comparing minorities to republican voters, I’m comparing the level and effectiveness of these distractions from those who are actually responsible for the shit we’re in, and who will do anything and everything to make sure we don’t turn on them, but only ever on each other - the people they’ve made sure are constantly stressed trying to survive, who are poorly educated (and this isn’t about the quality of the school or the years spent in it, it’s about the whitewashed version of history and lack of critical thinking skills we’re all taught among other things), exposed to constant propaganda and systemic division. The fact that so many people fall for the hateful bigotry this promotes against their own best interests just goes to show how well the system works for those it actually serves.
And that isn’t even Trump, he isn’t even in the same league as those actually pulling the strings, and who will stop at nothing to safeguard their power and money (including letting a destructive mask-off clown run amuck for a few years, you now, as a treat, and to manufacture consent for the much worse shit that’s yet to come).
If you really want to stop fascism you have to understand what it is (capitalism in decay) and that the both sides they let you choose from serve the same master and only ever represent their side. The actual sides in “both sides” are working class vs owning class, oppressed vs oppressors, the system vs those it exploits to exist.
Don’t play along with their game, free yourself from the binary they’ve made you believe is free choice, and fight the system, the sham they call “democracy” included.
You’re the person the article is written about. The headline is about you. Even in this thread, you make the time to espouse this essay of yours. Do you seriously not see what you’re doing? This isn’t the time for this conversation. The grown ups are trying to keep the ship afloat and sail another day, hopefully with the wherewithal to course correct. Stop espousing both sides are the same. On a thread about an article about how dangerous that is. The cognitive fucking dissonance man…
This isn’t the time for this conversation.
Never is.
I know. It fucking sucks. Nazi fascism sucks worse. We’re no longer on an up and right progressive trajectory. I have two grandfathers that fought Nazis to prevent this. It sucks.
I know. It fucking sucks.
Don’t give me that. You’ve found an excuse to scream abuse at Biden’s critics from his left and only his left and order them to shut up.
Should I be wasting my time finding the 7 Trumpers on Lemmy and start picking fights knowing they will never change? Perhaps while angry with both, I naively thought that one of those sides would be pragmatic about their demise.
You don’t want them to shut up. Only people to your left who don’t like genocide.
I agree with everything you’re saying but I doubt you’ll find the discussion you seek here on Lemmy.
Thanks, it’s more about just having to say it, than wanting to debate it with anyone - those who would debate it have already made their minds up, it’s more for the undecided lurkers who come across it and it might make sense to…
I go back and forth on this. When I was younger the Palme Dutt essay you cited would have sounded like nonsense to me. Now I see his work as a brilliant analysis of the conditions that give rise to fascism. Going back and tracing the circumstances that led to my change in perspective is not easy. What was the relative impact of comments like yours or my life circumstances that led to a change in my perspective? I can’t say I know for sure.
just because one of the sides is dumb does not mean there are not two sides.
Yeah, but they don’t need or deserve equal framing, either. And the media should feel free to point out that one side is, indeed, dumb (or, usually, just being dishonest) and know that they have not abandoned being objective. I really do wish that it was common for journalists to call liars on their lies, indeed, even calling them liars. Preferably, in real time, and in their faces. It is still perfectly objective to do so.
Completely agree, america always has been rather right-wing, compared to Europe (counting after WWII, of course), and it has been shifting badly to the right and right wing extremists and even terrorists are the real problem right now, but…
There are a lot of “not really THAT important yet really fringy left” issues being pushed by many on the left side of the isle that really don’t get as much bang for the buck, whilst being very divisive. This divisiveness has then been very successfully used by the right wing to demonize the left side and sow division.
As an example, I can’t count the number of people I know that back in the day voted for trump because they were angry about the identity politics, the pronouns, the bathroom issues. Some of these issues are important, like the bathroom issue, but not nearly as important as, say, saving the supreme court, universal healthcare, police reform, etc. you know, bigger fish. Pronouns are much, much lower on that ladder even, it should be a non subject for politicians.
Meanwhile, all I heard was Democrats talking about these divisive none or low priority issues, and the right, very successfully, took advantage of that, and keeps taking advantage to this day.
Stop talking about these fringe issues. Like half a year ago or so I recall reading about some Democrat talking about the rights of trans prisoners, that they should have the right on government funded sex changes. Really? That’s the hill we’ll die on? I know it’s something that at some point should be talked about, but in this climate it’s stupid to even bring that up. We got bigger fish to fry.
Let’s for now start ONLY talking about the big issues, leave the rest for later, please?
Do you get business class or economy when they fly you out to DC at your job as “Arbiter of What Issues are Actually Important for Americans”?
Some of these issues are important, like the bathroom issue, but not nearly as important as, say, saving the supreme court, universal healthcare, police reform, etc. you know, bigger fish.
All of the “bigger fish” require abolishing the filibuster to do anything about. Democrats don’t want to because they like those fish where they are.
That’s not a compelling argument to abandon trans people.
Agreed. Trans rights shouldn’t be a political football.
They’re Americans, they should be as free to live their life as the MAGA twat fucking his sister with the raiders game on.