Mitch McConell says the quiet part out loud.

Exact full quote from CNN:

“People think, increasingly it appears, that we shouldn’t be doing this. Well, let me start by saying we haven’t lost a single American in this war,” McConnell said. “Most of the money that we spend related to Ukraine is actually spent in the US, replenishing weapons, more modern weapons. So it’s actually employing people here and improving our own military for what may lie ahead.”

cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/4085063

  • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    The US obviously doesn’t care but the aid is helping Ukraine keep it’s independence and even if US pulled out Europe would continue it’s support. Like Poland is amping up ammo production to the point where it alone can supply Ukraine with ammo. Ex-soviet countries fucking hate Russia for a good reason. Also even if Ukraine got no support it’s not like they would stop fighting, they would just be slaughtered and occupied by the Russians which is the worst outcome for them considering what’s going on in the occupied regions. Like for once the US military is not doing something completely morally reprehensible and is actually opposing imperialism for once, that’s a good thing.

    • ElChapoDeChapo [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Ex-soviet countries fucking hate Russia for a good reason

      No, they really don’t have a good reason bugs-stalin

      Like for once the US military is not doing something completely morally reprehensible and is actually opposing imperialism for once, that’s a good thing.

      doubt are you really that gullible?

    • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago
      • Ukraine isn’t independent, they got coup’ed by US-backed Nazis and libs and they’re now a vassal or the US empire.
      • Most European countries would immediately follow the US, as they always do.
      • The whole of NATO cannot send enough arms right now, and you think Poland can do it all on its own soon? What are you on about?
      • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago
        1. No they didn’t. Their president made a play to become a dictator and failed. Any support for euromaidan outside Ukraine happened after.
        2. Maybe Germany but no earthly force can stop support from the baltics and Poland that hate Russia with a passion due to their bloody rule during the soviet occupation and current antagonism from Russia.
        3. They can’t send enough arms that Ukraine can use. More modern stuff requires training Ukraine doesn’t have and most places aren’t producing old equipment so what’s sent is stuff is stockpile. More training is being done to modernize the equipment but that takes time. Also Poland just wants to produce the ammo, not everything and it was just one example.
        • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          I don’t know where you’re from, but I think you also “hate hate Russia with a passion” and it’s clouding your judgement, because you live in some alternate reality if you believe all that.

          There’s an old clip of Nuland where she says the US spent 5 billion dollars promoting democracy in Ukraine. There’s also the famous “Fuck the EU” clip of her deciding who’s going to be PM before the coup even happened. Then there’s her and lots of other western politicians on stage at the Maidan. McCain famously shook hands with a Nazi leader on there.

          Can you imagine what you would say if all these things were done by Russia instead of the US?

          • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            I have seen both clips. The 5 billion was over like 30 years as foreign aid which is like pretty common for the US, there are like 50 other countries that also receive aid like this. And the other one I know is when Nuland ‘selected’ their next leader who was the leader of the opposition who would have been in power anyways.

            All those politicians showed up after it happeded as I said.

            You can also verify the laws Yanukovych was trying to pass. They pretty obviously are meant to turn him into the dictator of Ukraine. I would protest that.

            • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              The 5 billion was over like 30 years as foreign aid which is like pretty common for the US, there are like 50 other countries that also receive aid like this.

              Well that’s fine then I guess. The US “aids” pro-US political groups with billions of dollars everywhere! How nice.

              All those politicians showed up after it happeded as I said.

              There are pictures of them on the Maidan. Before the coup. News articles in the western press. What is this kindergarten? Do you have no object permanence?

              • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
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                1 year ago

                The US “aids” pro-US political groups with billions of dollars everywhere! How nice.

                Yes but what if this time the US didn’t want something out of it? If the US did want something out of it there would be evidence of it, surely? Like a website for privatising Ukrainian assets? Or IMF reports explaining how half the loans were given to pay off the previous ones until Ukraine dismantled it’s manufacturing industries, military capabilities, and devalued it’s currency? Or, I don’t know, an article like the one in the OP that quotes someone explaining the US is only involved to quell dissent about it’s failing economy among it’s domestic workers.

              • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                What I was saying is that no, 5 billion wasn’t given to some shadowy group in Ukraine to do a coup, it was the standard foreign aid the US throws around to advance it’s interests.

                Also yes, politicians go around shaking hands all over the place. I though you meant they went to Ukraine to specifically support Euromaidan before it happened but any politician supporting that visited after.

                Ultimately the laws that triggered the protests were very protestable. If Kaia Kallas tried to pass those here I would be taking up a pitchfork and torch right now. There is no evidence to suggest it was some group paid by the US but plenty to suggest people protested because their leader was screwing them over.

                • gnuhaut@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Obviously protestors have a reason for protesting and the CIA isn’t handing out cash to random schmoes. They’re just giving money to various groups that organize and support the protest, or they pay for positive media coverage. Groups they’ve been cultivating for decades. Groups that are coordinated by the US state department and will do basically what the US embassy tells them to do.

                  Again, imagine you had protests in Estonia, and the groups involved were long-time funded by Russia, and Russian officials made appearances at these protests to hand out cookies and shake hands, and Russian-funded media was riling up the protestors, and some of the people involved are straight up far-right fascists that hate your ethnic group. And then you hear a leaked phone call of Lavrov discussing who’s going to be the new PM of Estonia, and a couple of weeks later, shooting starts (no one knows how exactly and nobody is too interested in finding out) and your old PM gets ousted without proper procedure, and the guy the Russians said they liked is in, and the far-right fascists also gets posts, and they hate you. WHAT WOULD YOU THINK?

                  • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    The initial protest, that were gunned down, were started by students at like midnight because the leader tried to sneakily pass the dictatorship laws… Also as I said the money was given over like 30 years. If they were discussing the new PM and it was the person who was 100% going to be PM then that would be irrelevant as I said.

                    At best all of this is some slightly sussy things that seem maybe related but if you look into all of them individually they are basically meaningless. But if you look at what the people were protesting it makes perfect sense to protest this.

                    So the 2 options boil down to:

                    1. For the last 30 years ‘the west’ has been working to coup Ukraine and they have control to determine who will be leader and they pick the most obvious guy that would already be in power. But they don’t have the power to make the protestors take the deal they were urging them to take.
                    2. Yanakovych wants to be a dictator so he passes laws to slowly make himself into one. The students take issue and protest. He reacts the worst way and kills them triggering massive protests across the country forcing him to flee.

                    Option #2 seems way more believable to me.

                • Redcat [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  it was the standard foreign aid the US throws around to advance it’s interests.

                  It’s quite telling that the US has triggered so many coups around the world that you can call it ‘the standard foreign aid’. How the hell do you think coups come about?

        • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          the baltics

          I’ve lived in cities with a much larger population than all of the Baltics. What, exactly, are three medium sized suburbs going to do against Russia?

            • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Wait did you just said Baltics have actual military? Compared to… Russia? All of them combined have less that 50000 active military personnel with pretty weak armament and basically nonexisting navy and airforce (all three combined have literally zero combat airplanes).

          • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            That was kind of a joke as there are like 5 countries who produce all their weapons locally.

            • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Goalpost:moved again

              He said Ukraine’s safety depends on foreign weapon aids

              Other nations buy weapons. Ukraine only exists as long as it can continue to successfully beg for weapons.

              • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                You sure do like your goalposts…

                I’m pretty sure the US at least is providing weapons in the form of a loan so they are buying their weapons too.

                Also begging for weapons seems a bit more dignified than having your army steal washing machines and build the electronics of your equipment out of those.

                • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  your army steal washing machines and build the electronics of your equipment out of those.

                  Wait you still believe that was a real thing? It was projection. Missile and drones don’t need super powerful chips and China makes anything they do need.

                  You must not be following the war very closely. Russia is firing dozens of missiles and hundreds of suicide drones every week and the volume keeps rising.

                  • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    They are calling their cannon fodder suicide drones now? That’s pretty fucked up even for Russia, more honest than normal at least.

                • Krause [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Also begging for weapons seems a bit more dignified than having your army steal washing machines and build the electronics of your equipment out of those.

                  How do Liberals square off the fact that Russia is outproducing America and EU for war equipment with this insane washing machine myth? How many washing machines are in Russia and Ukraine anyway? Must be a lot if they’re kicking NATO’s ass while still relying on them for parts data-laughing

                  • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    Well if by producing you mean raiding their own museums for equipment then yea. Also probably not many left at this point, ukraine should deploy tactical washing boards to rob Russia of their last source of electronics.

                  • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    Hmm, not drunk enough or poorly equipped enough to be Russian troops, i guess they are saving this poor washing machine from Russian control.