Eldritch pacts are meant to be agreements between a master and an apprentice, kind of like the Sith, or tradesmen in real life. The Warlock receives knowledge and resources from the Patron, and the Patron gets the Warlock’s service in return. If the pact is broken, the Warlock loses the ability to continue to learn from the Patron, leverage their resources and influence, etc., but they do not lose the knowledge they’ve already learned (unless that was a specific stipulation in the pact).
Oftentimes warlock levels don’t make sense given what happens in-game. I’ve rarely seen anyone talk to their patron for any length of time to get the tips n’ tricks necessary to increase their level through “apprenticeship.” Even coyly saying “I seclude myself for a few hours“ seems to be too much for most players. You have a mechanically built in RP opportunity, folks, use it!
Wizardry makes perfect sense if the character came from a wizard school, in the same way that schooling just kinda kicks in with med interns. The martials become more accustomed to their own bodies and read others’ tells through the ol’ ultraviolence. Clerics are noticed by their god and paladins rapidly develop their god complex. Most, honestly, make sense without any legwork. Even communicating with their patron during their watch would be enough to begin understanding the intricacies of the pact magic. I dunno, maybe I just put too much effort into grounding it.
With the martials I can agree, with the wizard in particular imo they’d need a lot more time than they really get in most campaigns for studying, their level up spells IIRC is supposed to be the stuff they get from experimenting during downtime but the game doesn’t really show downtime training at all. I’d rather most classes have to show putting more effort into training either way tbh, for martials it’d be training new techniques before they can do it in combat, for casters it’s new spells Even a sorcerer should imo have to spend some time learning how to use their powers in ways they want them to.
WotC seems not to understand how people play, so I mostly ignore their suggestions on the “how” of the apparent “chosen one” PCs. I’ve found sorcerer players somehow get it just right enough that I can’t complain. I do agree that people skip the buildup altogether too often. However… rapidly becoming a druid sage is the one that I have nearly unmitigable reservations about. Unless the druid is an elf who spent most of their 200s as an ascetic, I have to give them a major side-eye.
In the playtests of old Warlocks were intelligence casters and some of the flavor stayed. Made more sense to be a researcher that strikes a deal for knowledge while a charisma one would be more inclined to bargain for straight up power.
Eldritch pacts are meant to be agreements between a master and an apprentice, kind of like the Sith, or tradesmen in real life. The Warlock receives knowledge and resources from the Patron, and the Patron gets the Warlock’s service in return. If the pact is broken, the Warlock loses the ability to continue to learn from the Patron, leverage their resources and influence, etc., but they do not lose the knowledge they’ve already learned (unless that was a specific stipulation in the pact).
This makes sense. It also makes Warlocks different from evil clerics.
I could definitely see it going either way. That being either the patron bestows knowledge, or the patron actually provides the power in real time.
But it should be something that is agreed to between the player and DM as soon as the class is chosen.
Oftentimes warlock levels don’t make sense given what happens in-game. I’ve rarely seen anyone talk to their patron for any length of time to get the tips n’ tricks necessary to increase their level through “apprenticeship.” Even coyly saying “I seclude myself for a few hours“ seems to be too much for most players. You have a mechanically built in RP opportunity, folks, use it!
None of the classes make sense most of the time, a lot of the time with official modules there isn’t enough downtime to do it even if you wanted to.
Wizardry makes perfect sense if the character came from a wizard school, in the same way that schooling just kinda kicks in with med interns. The martials become more accustomed to their own bodies and read others’ tells through the ol’ ultraviolence. Clerics are noticed by their god and paladins rapidly develop their god complex. Most, honestly, make sense without any legwork. Even communicating with their patron during their watch would be enough to begin understanding the intricacies of the pact magic. I dunno, maybe I just put too much effort into grounding it.
With the martials I can agree, with the wizard in particular imo they’d need a lot more time than they really get in most campaigns for studying, their level up spells IIRC is supposed to be the stuff they get from experimenting during downtime but the game doesn’t really show downtime training at all. I’d rather most classes have to show putting more effort into training either way tbh, for martials it’d be training new techniques before they can do it in combat, for casters it’s new spells Even a sorcerer should imo have to spend some time learning how to use their powers in ways they want them to.
WotC seems not to understand how people play, so I mostly ignore their suggestions on the “how” of the apparent “chosen one” PCs. I’ve found sorcerer players somehow get it just right enough that I can’t complain. I do agree that people skip the buildup altogether too often. However… rapidly becoming a druid sage is the one that I have nearly unmitigable reservations about. Unless the druid is an elf who spent most of their 200s as an ascetic, I have to give them a major side-eye.
In the playtests of old Warlocks were intelligence casters and some of the flavor stayed. Made more sense to be a researcher that strikes a deal for knowledge while a charisma one would be more inclined to bargain for straight up power.