Trump literally spouting hate, absurd deportation rhetoric, and insane tariffs while on the campaign.
I didn’t know he would do that!
It wasn’t supposed to ruin my life just the other Average American people!Republicans are the stupidest racists on the planet, they can’t even recognize when they’re about to get robbed after being told they’re going to get robbed by the robber.
Seeing a Hispanic Virginia citizen that voted for trump get arrested by ICE without warrant is the full circle stupidity that I’ve attributed to uncle Toms and log cabinors in the past. You voted so ICE would roll up on people and just grab them off the street because you wanted to be a pick me. Well they picked you up dumbass.
It’s the same shit I see when “moderates” get all surprise Pikachu faced when the “fiscal conservatives” they wanted, piss on them with trickle down economics.
You voted so ICE would roll up on people and just grab them off the street because you wanted to be a pick me. Well they picked you up dumbass.
They wanted to be a pick me; they were picked to be deported.
TBH I’m okay with folks admitting they were lied to. Just help us fix this now.
Yes, but don’t let your self righteousness turn a budding class war back into a culture war.
If Republican voters are suddenly waking up and thinking “this isn’t right” smacking them down with “this is what you voted for” is not going to help your cause.
“Yes, you’re right, this shouldn’t be happening and we should work together to stop it.”
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They were so happy they got to screw over everyone they disagreed with. They considered themselves apart, separate, better, than those they disagreed with. They were the Real America™, the rest of us weren’t part of that. They completely overlooked the fact that, for now at least, we are all still Americans, living in the same country, under the same economy, and the same rules. So they suffer the consequences of their hubris and myopic exceptionalism.
“A nazi walks into a bar, and is welcomed at a table by his nine friends. How many Nazis are at the table?” Anyone who sides with fascists, even tentatively or for differing reasons, is themselves still a fascist.
The German Nazis didn’t gain power purely from support of other nazis; they gained power largely from various other parties, business leaders, and wealthy elite, who thought the Nazis would be a useful tool they could use and control to their own ends. The “why” of their support is far less important than the fact of the support itself, and the fact those people were responsible for helping the Nazis commit their crimes.
There is a difference – his nine friends can still be shown the light.
I’d love to here from the “project 2025 isn’t real.” folks right about now.
No, they knew what it was. They just didn’t think it would affect them.
This right here. Dumbasses thought they were not on the list but it turns out they had just not gotten that far down the list yet.
Farmers didn’t realize they were the E in DEI
I never thought the leopards would eat my face!
No one read it. There were plenty of more obvious warnings.
after WW2 and the horrors of the Nazis came fully to light…people kept asking…how did the German people let this happen? how did they let it continue until disaster fell? how could they have allowed such cruelty and degradation to occur?
THIS was how. by not paying attention. by ignoring the growing inequities and terror going on in their midst. BY PRETENDING EVERYTHING WAS OK.
and now WE are doing the same. it’s easy to ignore right now…it isn’t TOO bad…not TOO many people are being affected…yet.
we need to stop ignoring and start paying attention to exactly what they are doing.
For real. And yet some ppl still thinks he’s 4d chessing even after all this sht.
I also blame the 90M eligible voters that abstained from the election. Think about that for a second. There were 13M more people that did nothing, than all of the people that voted for Trump.
Welcome to adulthood. Make a choice or one will be made for you. If you stand for nothing, then you’ll fall for anything.
You should really ask yourself why so many people just didn’t see the point in voting.
Voting doesn’t always mean you 100% agree with the party you are voting for. Sometimes it means that you vote for the least bad option to prevent system collapse. I say this as a South African whose only voting goal for years was to prevent the ANC from getting a sufficiently high majority to be able to change the constitution. We came insanely close a few times but made it through.
Not voting in the US election was a choice, a choice not to stand against Trump. So anyone who didn’t think Trump was bad enough to vote against, doesn’t get to blame the GOP for what’s happening.
All that is needed for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.
That is a fair point, but for this to happen, there must have been a fair few who just didn’t see much difference between the two parties.
If they honestly thought both parties were equally bad, then they’re getting what they expected - an untrustworthy political party that doesn’t represent their values. I trust they’re feeling sufficiently vindicated.
Inb4 people come here to defend their self-righteousness. No, nephews. You made a stupid choice for stupid reasons, and it’s time to accept your core values are obnoxious and self-centered, and then shape up.
Same phrase applies to non voters and trumpanzees alike. You were lied to and you fell for it … simple as
100% agree. I don’t really care what their reasons for not voting Harris was.
If they abstained from voting because of Israel, or her affiliation with the prison industrial complex, if it was something ignorant like skin color or gender, or if they voted against her because they either supported Trump, or just always voted Republican no matter what.
Trump voters and non voters decided that the worlds largest military should be long to fascists.
I have no respect for people who whine that this is not what they voted for, because it was. Ignorance is no excuse.
If you regret your actions, NOW is the time to make up for it. Become politically active, speak up, inform your friends, do SOMETHING!
If you didn’t vote for Harris in 2024, and you are not yet politically active against republicans, you deserve the bullets coming in your civil war.
So fucking glad i am not American.
nonvoters, tautologically, decided nothing.
Non-voters decided it wasn’t worth it to them to vote against fascism.
That makes fascism very much their fault too.
the democratic party decided they wanted trump to win the primary in 2016, when do they get blamed?
I blame them all the time too. The chair of the DNC had to step down because of their corruption in Bernies primary, but the courts ruled it wasn’t technically against any laws, so Hillary Clinton straight up hired her to run her campaign after that.
Its grotesque. But it doesn’t change the fact that anyone who didn’t vote for Harris in 2024 voted for fascism.
And then think about how the Democrats could have campaigned those people rather than chasing Republicans by adopting anti-immigration policies and platforming people like Liz Cheney, for example.
But they didn’t.
Welcome to adulthood. Establishment politicians, whether Republican or Democrat, are beholden to the rich and neoliberalism. We’re even seeing this with how establishment Dems are pushing back against populist, progressive figures like Bernie Sanders and AOC in favor of Cory Booker and Chris Murphy.
AND then consider how Joe Biden is coming back from the brink of death by saying that he and Jill will build back the Democratic party, thinking that people will forget how Biden shot down Bernie’s chances in 2020 or how he said he’d be a single term president, waiting until the first presidential debate with Trump months before the election to show just how fucking incompetent he is.
Maybe more people abstained from this election because the two biggest parties didn’t look any different, so who cares about the outcome!
I wonder what made the majority of those people not vote at all.
Probably go a long way making the days we vote federal holidays.
Ignorance. Willful or otherwise, there is no excuse when Trump was broadcasting his plans of dismantling our government to drive inequality and white supremacy.
Couldn’t have been successive gerrymandering, anti-voting laws, Democrats becoming Republican-Lite, increasing inflation, steadying wages, Democrats actively touting policies against the popular public mindset, Democrats failing to advertise their wins, Joe Biden going back on his word and waiting too long to drop out, Joe Biden and establishment Dems muting Kamala’s & Tim’s popular, progressive agenda, Joe Biden dropping out to force the least liked Californian politician to be the presidential front runner, Kamala literally saying she’s no different from Joe Biden, that we don’t have a federal holiday to allow all people the freedom to step away from the lifeline that is work to exercise their civic duty, on and on.
Nah, it wasn’t the system. People are just dumb.
And they are! Hell, I remember seeing interviews on Election Day where people still thought that it was Biden v. Trump. Even Trump forgot he wasn’t campaigning against Biden.
Democrats snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. They could have accounted for all of these social issues, but establishment leadership doesn’t care for the working class if it means they still get their paycheck and their spotlight in Congress.
Apathy? Laziness? Or are the evil Democrats that kept people from voting against fascism in the room with you right now?
the yougov poll showed that it was because they didn’t want to be complicit w the gazan genocide
Trump: ‘Let lsrael finish the job’ in Gaza.
That was before the election. Also, everywhere I looked, experts were saying Trump would be worse for Palestinians. And now here we are. If people say they care about this issue, they had a duty to inform themselves about it. I just saw 2 articles about how Palestinian medics were handcuffed and executed. The 2nd was about Israeli snipers shooting children! Harris’ administration would have been far better for Palestinians. Plus, unlike Trump, she actually has the capacity of empathy and introspection. We could have pushed back on a lot of Pro-Israel policies and changed a lot. Guarantee it. Trump is worse.
Which is pretty self-righteous, knowing full well that Trump has done for Netanyahu in his first term, and how he openly stated that Israel just needs to “finish the job.”
Ill respect someone that voted 3rd party or drew a cock and balls on the ballot over someone who didn’t bother.
Honestly I don’t think I would. That means it’s someone who’s informed as well as has the means to vote, and decided to let trump take over again.
The democrats support the FPTP system as well, if they lose because of it I feel they deserve it.
Not American though, I voted for a 3rd party candidate in the UK election. I don’t think anything will change until we make them lose too many votes to other parties.
Meh, blame the game, not the player. If someone wants to vote third party that’s their democratic right under the system. If you don’t like it fight for change to runoff voting.
Edit: hate it all you like, your system allows you to vote third party, so don’t be surprised when people do.
A lot of Rep voters approve of Project 2025. His approval isn’t that low. Approval of certain policies, like tarriffs are low, but overall approval isn’t. What’s scary is his most evil policies (the immigration policies) have some of the highest approval.
Maybe now (for whatever reason) republicans are more in favor of Project 2025 but during the campaign Project 2025 was quickly swept under the rug, because GOP probably knew it was so unpopular it might cost them the election.
They felt they needed the “undecided” or “centrist” vote to win, so Trump denying he didn’t know what it was, was helpful. Trump never condemned it either, he just said some of it was a little extreme, IIRC. The “undecided” or “centrist” vote is very marginal.
It was also unpopular within the republican party. Even within MAGA it had only 30% support. It wasn’t pushed out of the media to pull undecided or centrists. It was pushed out to not drive away the non-MAGA republicans. You can also compare the October poll to one of the first poll as it shows a clear trend where the more people found out about Project 2025 the less they liked it.
I’m sure the millions and millions of conservatives who use Lemmy are going to read this and really rethink their positions.
I’m not convinced most conservatives can read.
The situation with literacy in the USA does more to reveal exactly where and what we are far better than any other arguments about our wealth and society. We have a really big fucking problem here.
21% of adults in this country are FUNCTIONALLY ILLITERATE. This is mind-melting for the “richest nation on Earth.” We have nearly a quarter of our population who know how read words as necessary to survive but cannot string together text to form coherent narratives or even pictures in their heads. They can text with emojis and monosyllables but are deeply insecure about not being able to comprehend longer paragraphs and as a result rage against notions of logic and reason and fact-checking. This is what functional illiteracy means and we’ve all encountered it, and this is where much of our science-denial and irrational beliefs are coming from.
https://www.thenationalliteracyinstitute.com/post/literacy-statistics-2024-2025-where-we-are-now
they can; they just don’t.
Or they do, but it’s more harmful than anything because their reading comprehension is bad and they’re a magical thinking type human. So their take away is going to be outright wrong and they’re proud to be. Your truth has no value compared to how they feel, and they presuppose they’re correct and on equal footing as you despite having nothing to back up their claims.
The amount of times I’ve had people like this link to a source when badgered for one, and the link argues against their position is enough to cause dismay lol.
Is that better… or worse?
i think it’s on par with liberals reading and refusing to learn from it.
I was gonna say not here on lemmy, maybe facebook, instagram and now Reddit is your targeted audience, but we understand the sentiment due to the fact that you will get censored and permanently banned/shadow banned.
As someone who has had over seven 12+ year-old accounts permanently banned and shadowbanned by reddit for dubious reasons or no reason at all, yeah they don’t want humans engaging there, they want their bot-army to simulate a human community but then can be adjusted with a dial to change the narrative to fit whatever the oligarchs want to push.
Tbt I just deactivate my account yesterday. I had an older account that I deactivated during 2020 madness. So I popped in a year back and this permanently banning people for “hate speech” or whatever that goes against the narrative is absolutely insane! It’s basically 1984 or Fahrenheit451.
Do you not realize EVERY helpful message is important, and often shared across all platforms, and can be good talking points with Conservative friends?
Honestly, I don’t think it’s that important or helpful.
If you have conservative friends and feel the desire to try to engage and debate with them, you would be served a lot better by making an actual effort, understanding their positions and giving them all the rope they need. From there, addressing their specific worries and concerns and asking a lot of questions about why they have the concerns and fears they have… and it’s all fears, all the way down. They don’t care about facts, they have strong emotions that they can’t regulate and their brains latch onto any story to explain their feelings. Engage with the feelings and you can change them.
I have changed more hearts and minds than I can remember doing this, it’s not easy but you can change these simple people if you have the patience and energy. Human beings as a group are like locusts, a scourge upon the earth, a fluid that moves to the lowest places. But as individuals? Individual people are largely easy to influence and change, especially conservatives who only hold their positions because of fear of something.
Not saying that it’s not enjoyable and effective to make fun of the chuds with memes, but let’s all be honest that these memes and jokes are here for us to laugh over and feel catharsis from. If we all actually wanted a better world we would be marching in-mass on washington, arms locked with conservatives whom we have talked to and appealed to their emotions enough that they realized that they can be a part of a better group with a better identity. These people are dumber than dirt, you will get further with them with pity than you will with scorn. I know most people aren’t equipped for this, and I was because I was a self-defense teacher, a public speaker and used to debate right-wing people daily. If you’re anxious and/or non-social, don’t get yourself stressed even trying this until you get more experience.
while i don’t ardently agree with all your rhetoric it makes me feel such a sense of solace to see some of these ideas expressed in the wild.
it’s absolutely confounding how even seemingly rational people begin to emotionally seethe when presented with the fact that shitposting and generally bullying people isn’t activism. seems to be a very human thing.
i think a big part of the issue generally is that people think of their intelligence as some sort of absolute and continuous character trait rather than a discrete aspect of your personality; i.e, the idea someone is a “stupid” or “intelligent” person is of itself, a stupid idea lol. sometimes you’re the biggest brain in the room, sometimes you’re an idiot.
i appreciate your focus on the emotional aspect of it because that is certainly the more pertinent part. imo all humans average around the same intellectual capability, sans extreme outliers. it’s more about how people choose to use what is available to them than an actual lacking of mental capabilities. these people are just as rational as anyone else, it just happens that the vast landscape of knowledge itself is full of many pangs and holes that lead to nowhere; they seem stupid because there exists a seemingly logical perspective that causes them to infinitesimally and continually spin around these holes, like a coin in a make-a-wish donation thing. not sure if i’m conveying my rationale very well but i have found that the stuff in the cracks between ideas like this is often where the calculus of the universe hides in life.
. these people are just as rational as anyone else
I really appreciate your comment and writing here, but this is where I differ a bit, but it makes for a great segue into an equally important, adjacent point I’ve been mulling.
Nearly a quarter of the US population is functionally illiterate, meaning they can read individual words maybe, assemble the gist of a text message if it’s simple enough and makes liberal use of emojis, but they have no higher-compiling ability than that, they can’t read a post like this, they can’t read a book or even an instruction manual. And this is just the lowest end of the spectrum, there are vastly more who can kinda read okay if they really try, but have to struggle at it, and certainly can’t use language in their minds to form complex ideas or synthesize new information from reading or listening to words.
I think this is not getting nearly the attention it deserves, this should be a air-raid-siren alarm of urgency, everyone should be shutting down the entire country while we fix this. This is because the ability to use language, externally and internally, to “abstractify” complex ideas, to form new perspectives, to review the perspectives of others, this is what is separating a large swath of our population right now, because we just look at it as “stupid” when the real problem is deliberately seeded and far more insidious.
See, this isn’t a “fixable” problem in the traditional sense, we’re already cooked on this generation, it’s been proven that as a child develops they need to hit key milestones in development or they may never have things like full language capacity. Children raised by wolves or apes have been brought in and rehabilitated but they are never capable of learning more than the most basic language abilities.
This is what I believe corporate America is deliberately trying to do to our entire population by embracing anti-intellectualism, anti-education politics. By courting the religious right, by feeding all of us apps and games and videos and products designed to turn off conscious thought. Pushing things like AI that can “do the reading for you” or “do the art for you” and depriving billions from the exercise of forming a brain that can view ideas in multiple ways. I feel like I’m screaming into a void on this, but as people get more numb, they care less that they’re getting more numb.
everything you said here is absolutely correct and i’m glad at least some people recognize this issue. perhaps my use of the word rational in quotes was unfounded, i should’ve chosen better/more correct diction.
i suppose my point of “these people are just as rational as anyone else” is a bit of a misnomer and not exactly what i should’ve said; to clarify i probably more aptly meant “everyone, on average, has available to them the same basic cognitive faculties and it is a myth that the difference between these populations has something inherent to do with them as people,” which reading your reply you seem to agree with. i think this is key to fighting this, recognizing that on a grand scale it is in the course of life that these problems emerge vs the exact circumstances of birth. there’s definitely an argument about free will/determinism hidden here and you’d be valid to question how the circumstances of one’s birth relate to the course of your life (obviously, there is a strong relationship), but i digress. the important part is recognizing where these people “diverge” from what we would call “normal” is during life, not at the immediate beginning necessarily.
i like the example of literacy because it helps highlight the point i’m trying to make a little better, i think. most people adept in historiography and history would likely agree that there is a persistent myth that people in the past are somehow intellectually lesser than modern people. this of course isn’t true, but it’s difficult to explain why. to the layman it seems obvious that those in the past could do less than we can, but to the trained eye you can see that people have always been around the same level of average intelligence on a timescale comprehensible to human beings. improvements in average intelligence of the species are a very gradual evolutionary process that we can’t really perceive within the scale of human history; what has actually changed overtime is the sum of human knowledge. thus, people in hunter-gatherer societies were not “less intelligent” than their modern counterparts, they just used their intelligence differently. this is the crux of my argument. the literacy rate in prehistory, was… well, zero; as reading and writing had not been invented yet. but we don’t claim these people are less intelligent, for reasons described. literacy is intimately related to the problem at hand, but it is a symptom rather than a cause. i think we should extend that same logic to modern illiterates. they’re not necessarily lesser. taming the scourge of anti-intellectualism will hinge on truly understanding and recognizing that fact, which is something scientific outreach has done a poor job of imo. that has to do with the natural human inability to do true introspection along with the difficulty of the skill of empathy: problems that crop up in many facets of this debate.
although, as you describe, this is an active attack on us in what can only be described as a class war. modern LLMs and GPTs are another great case study. “intelligent” people are able to use these tools as nootropics and offload even more of their cognitive workload to the computer than ever before. it seems like most, however, aren’t capable of using them this way, as you point out. i think it speaks to the nature of intelligence enhancement tools generally. those who are capable can achieve greater things than they could alone. most, however, will see the opportunity to do less cognitive work as just that, a way to have to think less; and they then fail to properly utilize the tools in a way that is adverse to their own intellectual ability. interesting diactem, i think. speaks to the core of the problem.
i’m not so sure this is a problem we can even solve. there’s an episode of futurama where they travel to the distant future and all of humanity has diverged into two separate species of dumb, orcish brutes and frail, hyper-intellectual imps. maybe this truly is the path we are on, maybe the forces driving this divergence are too strong to be reconciled.
any thanks for listening to me ramble
Im having a grand time pointing it out as often as possible. Oh you had to skip on lunchables because they went up this month? glad your vote is working out. Gas still the same price? wonder who is doing that now. Oh you didnt get your bonus check, due to increased business costs? I wonder why.
here’s another useful one
It was never a paradox.
You just need to acknowledge that there is a limit to how tolerant the world can be. Maybe it is at 100% but there is a limit.
Then you just need to show that tolerance towards e.g. Nazism result in less tolerance than being intolerant to it.
Lol. The Paradox of Tolerance is on par with the Libertarian Non-aggression Principle. Purely academic, purely subjective and, ironically, a moral imposition.
the paradox of tolerance is […] Purely academic
Yes? That’s kinda the point of a thought experiment ? Do you think the trolley problem is less than “purely academic”? Or that Schrodinger actually put a cat in a box?
There are many people, like OP, that see things like the paradox of tolerance as some nouveau morality. It presents itself under the guise of being peaceful and tolerant when it is really a moral subjectivists justification for violence. It is dishonest and so are it’s proponents.
The people who voted for Trump are only angry that they are being hurt. Even if they read Project 2025, they’d assume they’d be exempt and that it’d only hurt the right people.
There is no reason to engage in smug gloating to shame them into repenting or trying to gently reason with them. You shouldn’t even be talking to them. You should seek to undermine them at every level possible. They need to be kneecapped.
Always discuss topics with unlike-minded people. Every one persuaded even a little is a win. Discussing only with like-minded people is an echo chamber.
I do discuss and argue with unlike minded people. I just do not do so with MAGA people.
Not because I think MAGA are hopeless, there might be a very very small portion of them that is swayable back to sanity via discussion. I refuse to talk to them and advocate more people do the same because I think doing so legitimately does more harm than good on average. For every MAGA you convert to moderation you further legitimize the beliefs in 99 other MAGA by engaging with them in good faith and even put your own safety at risk on multiple levels.
Admittedly, I also legitimately really fucking hate them. I’d be lying if there wasn’t a void in me that couldn’t be filled with MAGA people suffering or even dying at this point. The antipathy I feel is extraordinarily and irrationally intense.
It’s not so black and white. Hear me out: I’m strong against the MAGAs and not impressed with the reps either but I’ve been noticing something interesting happening:
I think there’s a difference between people who voted republican (conservatives) who legitimately believed a lie or just saw what they wanted to see(single issue voters) and MAGA who knew it was a lie and deeply corrupt.
You can see more refined polarizing on the level of what is happening right now on the judiciary branch. It is Republican judges that are holding Trump at bay in the crazy executive orders and illegal and constitutional crisis at the moment.
These judges were Republicans appointed by Bush.
And it’s the MAGAs that are screaming “DEM JUDGES” without first checking the flags on their trojan horse before doing so. Which is really just outing themselves to the republican voting base. I think the republicans are realizing they were a shill. and yes, i am with you that they shouldn’t be all “leopards ate my face” about it and so much of that is that they were complacent while the MAGAs were making open insults to minorities right in front of them.
That said, I think icing them out is not useful. I’m liking how the Dems are stepping up in the ruby red states and flipping seats. They are not icing them out and instead, using the strength of vote. Cuz yeah: republicans do vote. They just need to be led. at this point it’s to be lead away from their own slaughter and detriment and lessening the impact of damage that this caused(for everyone). Cuz like it or not, their votes do change the tide along with the Dems who vote.
There’s also those who whine but refuse to vote over casual excuses that hopefully this is a wakeup call for. I still hate them more deeply than anyone else for this happening. Well maybe on par with how much I hate MAGATs who spew pure toxicity at anyone who gets in their way of blindly “hurting libs” to everyone’s detriment. Cuz sitting by and expecting everyone to save their asses while they doomglare about everything and take up space is passing their self burdening as someone else’s problem.
I think there’s a difference between people who voted republican (conservatives) who legitimately believed a lie or just saw what they wanted to see(single issue voters) and MAGA who knew it was a lie and deeply corrupt.
I honestly don’t think we should differentiate. Republican leadership in the house and senate have done nothing to stand against Trump and MAGA, and have completely facilitated this mess. Differentiating between “MAGA” and “Republicans” just gives them an out later. MAGA is Republican, and Republicans are MAGA, at least at the policy level.
The Republican party needs a dramatic shift away from utterly insane and corrupt politics and behavior, and that’s only going to happen with a heavy amount of pressure from their base and elsewhere. They don’t deserve leniency in this.
