Hello I just created this Account for this Question. Is it okay to support Israel in the middle east conflict? I’m from Europe and have no ties at all to any Side. Its just that I lean more to the Side of Israel then any other. Is this okay? Is it up to debate which Side is to support or is one of them clearly in the Wrong? (Like Russia is in the Wrong attacking Ukraine or Germany attacking Polland 1939).
EDIT: For clarification: Im talking about their Settlements and their military campaigns NOT about their government.
If this Post is too political please remove and I’m deeply sorry for that.
Allow me to preface this by saying that I think both sides act like enormous cunts at times and I am also eternally grateful that it is not my life.
The only problem I have with the “Its Palestinian land” argument is that 1948 was 75 years ago. Its very important to the macro view of the sutuation but do you think a 3rd generation Israeli born citizen who is now strapping up his body armor to fight so that people stop trying to kill his family gives much of a fuck about how young his country is? Or who traditionally owned the land? Its his town, his city, his little brother who was just kidnapped.
I dont think anyone seriously thinks if Israel gave Hamas/Palestine the whole west bank, no more arguments about borders, leaving the settlements alone and trying to make peace that Hamas would become all about peace, hugs and understanding.
I think its absolutely impossible to defend either side with a straight face. Ask both of them about the worst 10 things the other side did and both of them are monsters.
But surely that person has to appreciate that it’s only happening because his country is killing and stealing the land of another and has been for 75 years, and has essentially kettled them into a literal corner with giant walls and no escape where they have to rely on aid to survive, while killing and injuring huge amounts more of their people. (20x more killed in the last 15 years)
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Acting in self defence or in anger is pretty understandable given what’s happened.
It’s like condemning Ukraine for attacking Russia, if Russia had been attacking for almost a century. Russia also claims that Ukrainian land belongs to their country historically. Blows my mind anyone can “both sides” it, and supporting Ukraine whilst condemning Palestine is especially hypocritical. The BBC especially surprised me how blatant the hypocrisy is with their one sided reporting
Jewish history in Palestine stretches back some 2000 years with a major purge about 1500 years earlier. What do you think about that claim on their land or does time negate that? Serious question that could argue rather the opposite in that they are fighting for land was taken from them.
What do you think about the Russian claim to the land in Ukraine
False. Ukraine occupies it now and have for some time.
But Russia say it’s theirs historically? So surely they should just be allowed to have it
Well if Ukraine doesn’t fight for it and Europe and the US allow it, then I suppose Russia can have it. But I don’t suspect that will happen. Russia is acting like terrorists and well they are paying the consequences. I suspect this will be the downfall of Putin. No loss there.
Do you believe that Russia rightfully should be claiming the land by force?
I believe the believe they do. I won’t be sad when they loose. They are acting like a terrorist country with a government that, while acting like a democracy, is eliminating any opposition negating any real democracy. They don’t care about their people but power. Much like Hamas. So no I don’t believe they have any right to Ukraine. They don’t believe in real human rights.
Side note: the BBC has deeply disappointed in recent years with their Murdoch-esque reporting style. They’ve had to come off the list of trusted sources.
On the other hand, that is within a human lifetime and they’re still expanding their settlements today. It’s not like the bad stuff just happened to people 75 years ago then stopped.
But I wish Israel didn’t help create Hamas. It would be much preferable for a more secular force to help Palestinians that I could put my support in. No one wants to support terrorists, but now Hamas is basically their only option, which sucks. I don’t even like reading about the stuff over there now, it’s all sad and there’s no good solution.
I know it was difficult to move a bunch of ethnic Jews to Israel to begin with, but I don’t see why it would be any more or less difficult to move them away in some sort of gigantic humanitarian effort to give the land back to Palestine now. It is equally as ridiculous now as it would have been back then.
Why not as an international community just guarantee a spot anywhere on the planet effectively for people to move out of Israel and into a country of their choice and give the land back most importantly.
That already happened once, and it is called Israel.
The core issue at the heart of all of this would be the generations of oppression and systemic genocide done to the Jews of Europe and the Middle East that necessitated the establishment of a sovereign Jewish state. And barring any better options, it was decided at that time that the best candidate was the ancestral homeland of the Jews. There was just the small problem of people who were living there for generations after the Jews were first pushed out centuries ago.
You can probably find countries willing to take in Jewish refugees if Israel were to dissolve, but no country on Earth is willing to cede land to enable the same degree of self-governance that Israel has today. If America or Germany were to cede land to create New Israel, that would only result in the same degree of resentment among the generational occupants of that territory that the Palestinians feel today.
Forcing another diaspora and relegating the Jews back to being just a minority group scattered across dozens of countries is asking for the same conditions that led to all of the forced migrations, pogroms, and holocaust which necessitated the establishment of Israel as a sovereign state in the first place.
But that’s the thing. What does Palestinian apartheid have to do with any of it? It was thrusted upon them. Just doesn’t seem fair.
Ironically, the beginning was then England left and divided the land between them. Then all the surrounding countries attacked the Jews and as they defended themselves, created the borders.
Even if you did find a place to move them, the Israeli people don’t want to leave. The area they currently occupy is sacred to all three Abrahamic religions, which is a motivating factor for the conflict.
They can stay, they’d just not be the defacto rulers of the land anymore