If you ever find yourself wondering why thereās people out there that donāt speak up about trans hate, just go reread your original reply to me. My comment was nothing close to hateful or bigoted, but youāre not gonna tolerate wrong speak on lemmy.
You clearly could see where I was coming from and where my support is directed. Instead of total indifference to my comment, which would have been the bare minimum amount of attention you could give to it. You decided to take umbrage with me saying ābiologicalā instead of what makes you happy and throw out intersex groups that make up a fraction of a percent of the entire population like an uno reverse card.
Then to cap it off you made sure to declare that Iāve been āproperly educatedā, so sayeth you. So from here on out, I need to use the right language orā¦ else?
Iām not quite sure what your final edict was supposed to imply. That if I donāt use the right language my trans friends wonāt talk to me anymore? Iāll get kicked out of the gay club?
Instead of leaving it, you had to make it a point to punch down on someone who isnāt as āinformedā as you and put me on blast like I just said the N word equivalent for trans persons.
Seriously, itās great you want to help spread awareness, but damn you took a super hostile and adversarial tone right off the bat.
Just calling my shot here. I wrote all this out on my phone and it will not be well received despite the fact that thereās members of trans alliance and advocacy groups who disagree with your position and disagree with the use of āASABā. Thereās people within the community who dislike using the term trans as a catch all.
Where do you personally draw the line? Are you going to stop saying ASAB now that you know some people donāt like it? Are you going to keep saying ātransā even though some people feel like it marginalizes the community and feels too informal to discuss complex gender identities?
I didnāt take umbrage with your original comment. I just pointed out that itās wrong and you should stop. I was annoyed when you seemed to double down.
Intersex people are just clear that ābasic biologyā is a non-functioning understanding of what biology is. Intersex people couldnāt exist if what you learned in high school bio was the end. Itās a clear indication that sex is not just some binary thing. Itās a very complex thing. Even non-intersex people have different developments in the growth due to different hormone levels and other things, and we can even control hormone levels artificially. Itās very complex, and the only useful term is AFAB/AMAB, and then more detailed medical records.
Then to cap it off you made sure to declare that Iāve been āproperly educatedā, so sayeth you. So from here on out, I need to use the right language orā¦ else?
Yeah, use the more accurate language, or else we know youāre choosing not to. Nothings going to happen. Everyone gets to make choices in life. I canāt make you do anything, but from one cis-gendered person to another, itās not difficult to be better. Itās just a choice.
Youāre getting really offended by someone just informing you the language you used was wrong. It wasnāt even a particularly insulting comment.
Where do you personally draw the line? Are you going to stop saying ASAB now that you know some people donāt like it? Are you going to keep saying ātransā even though some people feel like it marginalizes the community and feels too informal to discuss complex gender identities?
I rarely have a use for either term, so I draw the line where itās useful for others. If youāre a doctor, thatās where it matters, and after gender confirmation, your āsexā is a lot more complicated. After a while or hormone therapy, youāre more akin to your chosen sex than your birth sex. Thatās why the ābiologically male/femaleā term isnāt useful. Itās assuming their birth sex is their current sex for medical purposes, but itās more complex than that. Sex assigned at birth is useful because it limits it to that period specifically, and your medical records tell the whole story.
The AEI article you posted seems to ignore this fact. It seems to say your birth sex is the important factor. Itās just one of many. For future development, the one your hormones correspond with is likely more important.
The CLR article mirrors what Iāve said earlier:
āBy referring instead to sex assigned at birth, transgender rights advocates convey that ābiological sexā is not simple, static, or binary and that gender identity also has biological aspects.ā
For whatever reason people online are more interested in being outraged
I agree. People should be more calm, even when corrected. Being outraged doesnāt help. It only acts to cement our mind in preconceived ideas. Changing our minds when provided more information that counters our previous beliefs is something that should be commended, not fled from.
Youāre a the most qualified person on the internet for cisgender, trans, and intersex word policing.
Now that I know and if I donāt change, youāll make sure to report it to the cisgender police for trans activities special victims unitā¦
Itās interesting you chose the statement āitās not difficult to be better, itās just a choiceā. You could have started this entire interaction with āhey dude, just a heads up that a lot of transphobes use phrases like ābiological maleā to invalidate trans identitiesā, but instead you took the opportunity to speak down to me and made sure I was now āeducatedā and that I can stop using wrong speak.
Thank God youāre here as an ally to make people question why those of us on this side of the fence canāt even get along internally.
Youāre a the most qualified person on the internet for cisgender, trans, and intersex word policing.
I definitely am not.
Now that I know and if I donāt change, youāll make sure to report it to the cisgender police for trans activities special victims unitā¦
I havenāt reported or downvoted you.
Itās interesting you chose the statement āitās not difficult to be better, itās just a choiceā. You could have started this entire interaction with āhey dude, just a heads up that a lot of transphobes use phrases like ābiological maleā to invalidate trans identitiesā, but instead you took the opportunity to speak down to me and made sure I was now āeducatedā and that I can stop using wrong speak.
I donāt think I spoke down to you, but you are welcome to your opinion. I tried to inform you.
āI donāt think I spoke down to you, but you are welcome to your opinion. I tried to inform you.ā
Really? You seriously can re-read your comment and donāt see how shitty it comes across when addressing it to someone who used a word you disagree with unwittingly?
āAssigned male at birth is the term you want to use. āBiological maleā is a term used by transphobes to spread misinformation.ā
Not informative at all. Itās you telling me what word I want to use, while implying Iām a transphobe attempting to spread misinformation.
" Biology is very complex and not your elementary school version of biology. What makes someone ābiologicallyā male? Is it having a penis, having testis, having more testosterone than estrogen, having XY chromosomes? These can all be intermixed with other characteristics."
Hereās the fun part where you state I have an elementary level understanding of biology.
āThe ābasic biologyā definition doesnāt work in the real world, and the people using it are actively trying to harm trans people or ignorant. Now youāre more informed so ignorance isnāt an excuse anymore.ā
Hereās the cherry on top where you talk about me not knowing how to discuss complex topics in the real world or that I may be actively trying to harm trans people at worst or ignorant at best. Lastly, in case you know Iām not a transphobe that my ignorance can no longer be an excuse.
You seriously couldnāt possibly think of any other combination of words to get your point across without making me out to be someone thatās intentionally skirting the line of ignorance and bigotry in an effort to harm trans people?
Assigned at birth is referring to what the doctor writes on your birth certificate. Itās not complicated. It has nothing to do with gender.
If you ever find yourself wondering why thereās people out there that donāt speak up about trans hate, just go reread your original reply to me. My comment was nothing close to hateful or bigoted, but youāre not gonna tolerate wrong speak on lemmy.
You clearly could see where I was coming from and where my support is directed. Instead of total indifference to my comment, which would have been the bare minimum amount of attention you could give to it. You decided to take umbrage with me saying ābiologicalā instead of what makes you happy and throw out intersex groups that make up a fraction of a percent of the entire population like an uno reverse card.
Then to cap it off you made sure to declare that Iāve been āproperly educatedā, so sayeth you. So from here on out, I need to use the right language orā¦ else?
Iām not quite sure what your final edict was supposed to imply. That if I donāt use the right language my trans friends wonāt talk to me anymore? Iāll get kicked out of the gay club?
Instead of leaving it, you had to make it a point to punch down on someone who isnāt as āinformedā as you and put me on blast like I just said the N word equivalent for trans persons.
Seriously, itās great you want to help spread awareness, but damn you took a super hostile and adversarial tone right off the bat.
Just calling my shot here. I wrote all this out on my phone and it will not be well received despite the fact that thereās members of trans alliance and advocacy groups who disagree with your position and disagree with the use of āASABā. Thereās people within the community who dislike using the term trans as a catch all.
Where do you personally draw the line? Are you going to stop saying ASAB now that you know some people donāt like it? Are you going to keep saying ātransā even though some people feel like it marginalizes the community and feels too informal to discuss complex gender identities?
Gender Dysphoria Alliance
The Problem with saying ASAB
Columbia Law Review
For whatever reason people online are more interested in being outraged.
I didnāt take umbrage with your original comment. I just pointed out that itās wrong and you should stop. I was annoyed when you seemed to double down.
Intersex people are just clear that ābasic biologyā is a non-functioning understanding of what biology is. Intersex people couldnāt exist if what you learned in high school bio was the end. Itās a clear indication that sex is not just some binary thing. Itās a very complex thing. Even non-intersex people have different developments in the growth due to different hormone levels and other things, and we can even control hormone levels artificially. Itās very complex, and the only useful term is AFAB/AMAB, and then more detailed medical records.
Yeah, use the more accurate language, or else we know youāre choosing not to. Nothings going to happen. Everyone gets to make choices in life. I canāt make you do anything, but from one cis-gendered person to another, itās not difficult to be better. Itās just a choice.
Youāre getting really offended by someone just informing you the language you used was wrong. It wasnāt even a particularly insulting comment.
I rarely have a use for either term, so I draw the line where itās useful for others. If youāre a doctor, thatās where it matters, and after gender confirmation, your āsexā is a lot more complicated. After a while or hormone therapy, youāre more akin to your chosen sex than your birth sex. Thatās why the ābiologically male/femaleā term isnāt useful. Itās assuming their birth sex is their current sex for medical purposes, but itās more complex than that. Sex assigned at birth is useful because it limits it to that period specifically, and your medical records tell the whole story.
The AEI article you posted seems to ignore this fact. It seems to say your birth sex is the important factor. Itās just one of many. For future development, the one your hormones correspond with is likely more important.
The CLR article mirrors what Iāve said earlier:
āBy referring instead to sex assigned at birth, transgender rights advocates convey that ābiological sexā is not simple, static, or binary and that gender identity also has biological aspects.ā
I agree. People should be more calm, even when corrected. Being outraged doesnāt help. It only acts to cement our mind in preconceived ideas. Changing our minds when provided more information that counters our previous beliefs is something that should be commended, not fled from.
Got it.
I apologize.
Youāre a the most qualified person on the internet for cisgender, trans, and intersex word policing.
Now that I know and if I donāt change, youāll make sure to report it to the cisgender police for trans activities special victims unitā¦
Itās interesting you chose the statement āitās not difficult to be better, itās just a choiceā. You could have started this entire interaction with āhey dude, just a heads up that a lot of transphobes use phrases like ābiological maleā to invalidate trans identitiesā, but instead you took the opportunity to speak down to me and made sure I was now āeducatedā and that I can stop using wrong speak.
Thank God youāre here as an ally to make people question why those of us on this side of the fence canāt even get along internally.
I definitely am not.
I havenāt reported or downvoted you.
I donāt think I spoke down to you, but you are welcome to your opinion. I tried to inform you.
āI donāt think I spoke down to you, but you are welcome to your opinion. I tried to inform you.ā
Really? You seriously can re-read your comment and donāt see how shitty it comes across when addressing it to someone who used a word you disagree with unwittingly?
āAssigned male at birth is the term you want to use. āBiological maleā is a term used by transphobes to spread misinformation.ā
Not informative at all. Itās you telling me what word I want to use, while implying Iām a transphobe attempting to spread misinformation.
" Biology is very complex and not your elementary school version of biology. What makes someone ābiologicallyā male? Is it having a penis, having testis, having more testosterone than estrogen, having XY chromosomes? These can all be intermixed with other characteristics."
Hereās the fun part where you state I have an elementary level understanding of biology.
āThe ābasic biologyā definition doesnāt work in the real world, and the people using it are actively trying to harm trans people or ignorant. Now youāre more informed so ignorance isnāt an excuse anymore.ā
Hereās the cherry on top where you talk about me not knowing how to discuss complex topics in the real world or that I may be actively trying to harm trans people at worst or ignorant at best. Lastly, in case you know Iām not a transphobe that my ignorance can no longer be an excuse.
You seriously couldnāt possibly think of any other combination of words to get your point across without making me out to be someone thatās intentionally skirting the line of ignorance and bigotry in an effort to harm trans people?