• Brkdncr@lemmy.world
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    28 days ago

    Police def overdid it, but part of the problem might be that some people would prefer to pay the fine for speeding because it’s insignificant to them. This specific component of the legal system is broken because it treats the wealthy exactly the same as everyone else.

    • Maven (famous)@lemmy.zip
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      28 days ago

      Fines need to scale based on the wealth of the perpetrator. It should be an equal punishment for breaking the law.

      • jonne@infosec.pub
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        27 days ago

        Also, you can just mail speeding fines to people, there’s no reason to pull anyone over for that shit except to initiate a conflict.

        • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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          27 days ago

          They use the pull over as opportunity to search for more offenses

        • Brkdncr@lemmy.world
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          27 days ago

          They could have said “no problem sir, we’ll get this ticket to you right away” and then slow walked the whole process. Taking up hill’s time would have caused him more problems than anything else.

      • Pacattack57@lemmy.world
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        27 days ago

        That sounds good in theory but that only hurts the middle class disproportionately. Not to mention it violates the constitution.

        • brianary@startrek.website
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          27 days ago

          Maybe there’s some precedent, but I can’t see why equally proportionate punishment should be unconstitutional.

          • Pacattack57@lemmy.world
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            27 days ago

            Proportionate to what? Net worth? Income? If you actually think it through you are not targeting the rich by doing this. You are targeting small businesses and middle class families.

            • Soleos@lemmy.world
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              27 days ago

              You could curve the proportion to income to scale impact to something more equitable. How you decide what’s equitable would be another problem to solve, but I imagine it would involve benchmarking around the middle class and poverty line. Right now fine rates are okay for the middle class, so keep the proportion similar, fine rates really fuck up poor people, and fine rates mean nothing to the upper class. So imagine you you feel would be a fair impact for a fine and scale it accordingly.

                • brianary@startrek.website
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                  26 days ago

                  Correct, they are different. But if you accept that evaluating a person’s wealth happens successfully for taxation, there’s no reason why the same metric can’t be used for fines.

        • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
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          26 days ago

          You’re assuming the fines will be scaled up to hurt everyone as much as they hurt broke people. They should be benchmarked against somewhere in the middle class, scaled down for poorer people and up for richer.

          Fines should be punishing but not devastating. At least not for speeding.

          • Pacattack57@lemmy.world
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            26 days ago

            Again in theory it sounds great. However you can not realistically put something like this on paper because a good lawyer would tear it apart.

            Inal but I can think of several reason and scenarios why this wouldn’t be fair. There are way too many situations that people deal with that affect their income and saying if you make X amount of money you must pay more for no reason other than you are successful is discrimination.

            Many young people don’t understand this but when there are rules in place, they need to apply equally to everyone, even the ultra wealthy. The fact that they aren’t isn’t a problem with the law, it is a problem with our police and public officials. Take it up with them instead of fixing something that isn’t broken. If it isn’t being done correctly now, what makes you think putting higher fines on rich people is gonna fix it?

            • LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world
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              26 days ago

              “Being rich” isn’t a protected class. That’s not discrimination lol lol. We already structure taxes like this lawfully.

              • Pacattack57@lemmy.world
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                25 days ago

                Taxes are not the same as fines. I swear some some democrats have such a hard on for “eat the rich” you will give up your own rights to fuck with some one else.

                You can’t target one group of people and expect no repercussions. Here is a relevant quote:

                “First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

                Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

                Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

                Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.” —Martin Niemöller

                It’s easy to point at another group of people and say they are the problem. Why don’t you look in the mirror and ask yourself what are you doing to fix the problem

                • LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world
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                  25 days ago

                  I’m not a Democrat.

                  Taxes provide a legal precedent for what you claim is “unconstitutional” regarding scaling fines.

                  This is honestly stupid. The capitalists are the problem in capitalism because it affords them too much power.

                  That poem you quoted is about Nazis, the oppressors. The poem doesn’t go “they killed everyone and it is morally wrong for me to kill them back.” Lol. You’ll notice the Nazis aren’t included in the poem? It’s Jews, sure, but not Nazis? Why do you think that, oh brilliant one?

        • Makhno@lemmy.world
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          27 days ago

          Not to mention it violates the constitution

          Almost as if relying entirely on an aged document written by the rich to set laws for the modern rich doesn’t work 🤔

            • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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              27 days ago

              No, it isn’t. The Articles of Confederation are what we had first before deciding it had too many flaws and ditching it for the new constitution in 1789. (Note: this is 6 years after the Revolutionary War ended, and 14 years after it started.)

              There’s no reason we can’t or shouldn’t do the same again now. The original writers clearly weren’t shy about pointing out the flaws, and anyone else defending the current constitution as if it shouldn’t be torn to shreds is not following what the founders wanted for us.

    • PixellatedDave@lemmy.world
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      27 days ago

      Over here speeding gets a fine and points on your license which when you hit the magic number you get your license revoked…

  • jeffw@lemmy.worldOPM
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    28 days ago

    I have spent a couple years badmouthing this dude, but the police bodycam footage is pretty crazy. It’s also crazy to me that a bunch of Miami cops would pull over one of the city’s most well-known athletes and nobody was like “gee, maybe we shouldn’t go so hard on this one, he’s famous”

    • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      28 days ago

      Thought process might well have been: “This is an uppity black man, we’d better show these types a lesson.”

      • Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world
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        27 days ago

        Nothing makes a a cop more upset than seeing a black man doing better than him. A LOT of poorer white ppl seeing any brown person doing better than them is upsetting. You only got in your position because your a diversity hire or Affirmative Action!

    • blarth@thelemmy.club
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      27 days ago

      No normal citizen would roll up their window on the police. Give me a fucking break.

      • lemmylurkaround@lemmy.world
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        27 days ago

        Playing devil’s advocate. He may just not have wanted some paparazzi taking a picture of him while being pulled over? You could see in the video where the cop decides he’s going on a power trip instead of just doing his job

      • bob@feddit.uk
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        26 days ago

        After they dragged him out he appeared to be on the phone to someone to make them aware of the situation. With the amount of police brutality and racism in America I don’t blame that reaction. Their actions here only justify it, too.

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        27 days ago

        Cops should be aware that if they fuck around with a famous person, they will definitely find out how it feels to face serious charges.

        I wish it was the same for us poor people, but it’s not.

        • jeffw@lemmy.worldOPM
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          27 days ago

          Exactly. I’m not saying the cops should do it, but you’d think they’d take a moment to pause before harassing literally one of the most famous men in their city. If that doesn’t make them reconsider their actions, just imagine what it’s like for everyone else. Tyreek Hill even made a comment about it in a post-game press conference, where he wondered what would’ve happened to someone else.

      • dogslayeggs@lemmy.world
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        27 days ago

        No, the person is saying the cops should have been smarter. They didn’t say, “the cops SHOULD HAVE done X.” They said, “it’s crazy that the cops DID do X.”

  • MelonYellow@lemmy.ca
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    28 days ago

    Excessive use of force by the cop who clearly wanted to escalate. Tyreek Hill also wasn’t being smart in the way that was handled. We already know how paranoid and trigger happy law enforcement can be. People like to act tough on the internet, but I wouldn’t DARE roll up tinted windows during a police stop knowing how shit could escalate. I’m trying to have them see my hands at all times. That’s exactly the kind of shit that can happen when you’re just trying to get home safe. Whatever it is, it’s not worth it.

    • Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world
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      27 days ago

      Tyreek Hill also wasn’t being smart in the way that was handled.

      Why is it that we have to cater to the ppl in the wrong? Give him his ticket and go. Plus there was already another officer before captain tiny dick showed up who confirmed he had no weapons in the car and according Hill keep the entire situation calm. Fuck him. You want respect you have to give respect

      • MelonYellow@lemmy.ca
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        27 days ago

        Asshole cop vs asshole citizen is what the video showed. I’m far from a cop lover but I can see how it feels on the other side of a rolled up window where you can’t see what’s going on and the person inside’s being non-compliant. Don’t fuck around and talk shit while rolling up your tinted window when a cop pulls you over. People in this country are strapped up. Especially in a concealed carry state like Florida that is full of insane people. Cops are on edge for a reason when they’re doing a traffic stop. If I did what Tyreek Hill did, I’d fully expect to be asked to step out or pulled out of my car

        • Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world
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          26 days ago

          There have been 18 year olds in active warzones that practice more restraint. If you’re that scared of being shot than don’t be a fucking cop. Like I said there was another cop before that asshole showed up who keeps the entire situation calm for everyone. Hill only started acting like an asshole when the cop started behaving like an asshole.

          • Caboose12000@lemmy.world
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            26 days ago

            the job of being a cop in the united States actively filters for cowards and power hungry losers. Holding undue power over others is literally the only attractive aspect of the job, so of course it will attract nothing but the worst type of people

        • zuch0698o@lemmy.world
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          26 days ago

          If they are so scared of every interaction, maybe being a cop is the wrong profession for them. It’s real easy to not treat civilians like shit.

      • Bell@lemmy.world
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        27 days ago

        But the guy breaking the law was in the wrong? Yes he’s going to get a ticket but he rudely rolls up the tinted window while the cop is still talking. Hill was clearly disrespectful first and antagonistic throughout.

  • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
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    27 days ago

    Video shows that two motorcycle officers went after Hill after he appeared to speed past them at in his McLaren sports car on the roadway entering Hard Rock Stadium in light traffic — they later said they clocked him at 60 mph (97 kph). They turned on their lights and pulled Hill over. One knocked on the driver’s window and told him to put it down, which Hill did and handed him his driver’s license.

  • doingthestuff@lemmy.world
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    28 days ago

    I am a huge police accountability buff. But also, law matters, and court rulings matter. If police order you out of your car for their safety (in the US), you have to comply. If you do not, they are authorized to use force to pull you out and almost never do that gently. Cops absolutely use excessive force all the time, so not doing things that specifically give them permission would be smart. Him rolling up his tinted windows and refusing to get out of the car are what made this happen.

    • Tramort@programming.dev
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      27 days ago

      They still need probably cause to force him out. They might have had it based on prior facts, but they might not have.

      Cops are way past getting the benefit of the doubt from me

      This looks like they were angry about an uppity black man.

      • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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        27 days ago

        This. They cannot tell you to get out for speeding or some other minor offense. They need probable cause for that. Then while he was in handcuffs, one of these clowns punched him in the face.

        We need to end qualified immunity and start jailing these authoritarian tyrants.

          • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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            27 days ago

            However, all other instances outside of those enumerated above appear to be unlawful reasons for ordering a passenger out of the car. For example, if the stop is concluded and the cop wants to talk to you about an unrelated matter. This would be an unlawful seizure. The Mimms case made it clear that while an officer may order an individual out of the car for legitimate safety concerns, the officer is not entitled to ask a driver out of the vehicle in every single instance in which he wants to speak with the occupants. See Pennsylvania v. Mimms, 434 U.S. 106 (1977).

            That’s literally you’re own link. Pulling a driver over on the highway and asking them to step out and move to the shoulder grass is fine. Asking them to exit the car, on a side street is not a safety issue.

            • doingthestuff@lemmy.world
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              26 days ago

              If they can’t see in your vehicle, they can tell you to exit the vehicle. If you give off a hostile vibe they can tell you to exit the vehicle. Having overly dark tint creates a scenario where they cannot see what is going on inside the vehicle. I have seen cops pull out their guns and shout at people to get out of the car from 20 ft away because they couldn’t see inside. I’m not saying that’s the right response, I’m just saying that there are more court-accepted reasons that an officer can pull you out of your vehicle “for their safety”.

    • dogslayeggs@lemmy.world
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      27 days ago

      Maybe, and I’m just spitballing here, but maybe for a simple speeding offense they didn’t need to drag him out of the car? Just because they are allowed to based on past court cases doesn’t mean they should use that for every issue they see.

      • doingthestuff@lemmy.world
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        27 days ago

        There are a lot of people who want to end qualified immunity and reform many realities of policing today. I am describing the reality today. There’s a reason I say I’m interested in police accountability/transparency.

    • crusty_baboon@lemmy.world
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      27 days ago

      The time between them ordering him out of the car (not asking to roll down the window) and them forcing him out was a few seconds.

      • mrcleanup@lemmy.world
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        27 days ago

        The one I saw was longer, they knocked at least two different times and he kept telling them off.

        • crusty_baboon@lemmy.world
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          27 days ago

          But they didn’t tell him to get out of the car yet. He should have rolled down the window yes, but that’s a separate issue than Penn vs Mimms.

          • mrcleanup@lemmy.world
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            27 days ago

            Sure, but once they establish a pattern of non-compliance it doesn’t reset with each new instruction. They expect he will resist getting out of the car based on his refusal to roll down the window. At that point they have to choose whether to get him out of the car quickly, or risk non-compliance issue with that, which could involve fleeing or hitting people with his car.

            When officer or public safety are at risk they will always choose to take someone into custody to stabilize the situation and then reassess from there.

            The situation with the window can’t be separated from the treatment with the door.

            • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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              27 days ago

              That is a policy of escalation, there is no reason to follow it. It just makes situations where this is more likely. It’s a miniscule increase in safety for an officer at a cost of massive risk to the public.

              • mrcleanup@lemmy.world
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                27 days ago

                That’s just naive. And that’s a big claim, a “massive risk” to the public, so back it up… Who got hurt in this instance?

                • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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                  27 days ago

                  The three people cops killed today, the at least double that of dogs, and had Hill nor been an nfl player on game day he would probably still be in jail.

      • doingthestuff@lemmy.world
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        27 days ago

        The clip I saw at the link looked like it was edited right there, I’d love to see the raw video. It could have been too quick, it could have been longer. I don’t know.

    • rtxn@lemmy.world
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      27 days ago

      Nice to finally see someone who knows Penn v. Mimms out in the wild.

  • jpreston2005@lemmy.world
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    26 days ago

    Everyone here gobblin up this rich domestic abusers BS just because the other party is a cop 🙄

    Keeping your heavily tinted window rolled down during a traffic stop is not an unreasonable request. Dude’s driving a $300k car and acting like an asshole to someone just doing their job. gimme a break. There are actual instances of racist police overreach that we aren’t paying enough attention to. This isn’t one of them.

  • LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world
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    26 days ago

    As a white woman who’s gotten tickets - I only open my window 2-3 inches to hand my documents through. It’s all I am obligated to do so we can communicate and I can provide documentation. Considering the amount of rape and murder the police conduct, I think this is reasonable. Idk why this man has to have his window down too. I’ve rolled mine up during traffic stops when it was very cold or very hot, as Florida probably is right now. It’s a huge abuse of power and completely unnecessary to attack a citizen for rolling up a window. No one should defend this. It’s fascism. There’s no crime for rolling up windows.

  • Bell@lemmy.world
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    28 days ago

    I expected to come here and see the police way out of line. Instead they are a little bit, but Hill was disrespectful and non-compliant.

    • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      28 days ago

      …Hill was disrespectful and non-compliant.

      When the police came round, repeatedly, to my childhood house, after being called by my mother because my father was raping and beating her, the police laughed.

      Maybe the police, as a collective, will deserve respect in some hypothetical future where they don’t often harm the innocent, and don’t often make the world worse.

    • Bo7a@lemmy.ca
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      27 days ago

      Where do you live that cops deserve respect? Nobody DESERVES respect, least of all due to their shitty job. If you want respect you earn it, and cops have been doing the opposite (in north america) since their inception.

    • dogslayeggs@lemmy.world
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      27 days ago

      So you think it is ok to answer a disrespectful rolling up of a window with physical violence?

      I’d hate to be in any way related to you.