• TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    2 months ago

    If there are dissenting voices in Israel they need to speak up. And if voices within Israel are speaking up they need to be amplified.

    All dissent I’ve heard has come from the diaspora.

    • Kudusch@startrek.website
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      “Without the return of the hostages we will not be able to end the war, we will not be able to rehabilitate ourselves as a society,” Ron Tomer, president of the Manufacturers’ Association of Israel. Te me, “Rehabilitation” implies a level of dissent with Netanyahu’s actions.

      • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        2 months ago

        I mean, I see what you are saying, but that is pretty rhetorically light. I can see this as maybe the start of something, but I think what we’re seeing out of Israel warrants a more focused and directed conversation.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOPM
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      2 months ago

      Then maybe you should, I don’t know, click on the link at the top of this article and look at the photos.

      Or possibly just read the headline of the post you’re commenting in.

      For fuck’s sake…

      • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        2 months ago

        They are protesting the retrieval of the hostages; not the genocide of the Gazan people. As far as I know, there are almost no voices in Israel speaking out against the genocide of the Gazan people.

        Maybe you should read the article.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOPM
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          2 months ago

          This article?

          The protests came as the White House said that national security adviser Jake Sullivan held a virtual meeting with families of U.S. hostages held by Hamas in Gaza and ahead of Israeli labor union Histadrut calling a general strike for Monday to protest the Netanyahu government and demand an immediate hostage-release and ceasefire deal.

          I read it.

          Why are you gaslighting?

          • Sundial@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            The trigger for the protests and ceasefire demands was for the rescue hostages, not the end of the ongoing genocide.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOPM
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              9
              ·
              2 months ago

              Yes, I know what triggered them. What do you think they want Netanyahu to do? Kill even more Palestinians? Is that what you think they’re calling for here? Bomb harder?

              Because they’re literally calling for the opposite. Isn’t that a good thing?

              • Sundial@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                8
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                2 months ago

                There’s no doubt that a good chunk of the population does want Netanyahu to kill even more Palestinians. These people didn’t start protesting over their actions against the Palestinians. So once they have the hostages it’s a safe assumption that they will stop protrsting and demanding a ceasefire.

                  • Sundial@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    6
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    If what you’re saying is true then there would have been protests of this magnitude the moment the news started coming out about what the IDF is doing.

          • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            @oakey66@lemmy.world started this thread with the topic:

            If every hostage was returned, Israel would be looking for every opportunity to level Gaza and further displace Palestinians in the West Bank.

            and they are right.

            You said:

            But let’s not pretend they’re a hive mind.

            I pointed out that I’ve seen there are no sources I’ve seen to the contrary coming out of Israel. Everything I’ve seen to the contrary (sources which would make the argument that Israel should not be engaging in genocide, agreeing with @oakey66@lemmy.world 's point ) has been coming from diaspora sources, not sources within Israel.

            You then responded with:

            just read the headline of the post

            But the headline of the article does not make that point, and neither does the article. In fact, its another unit of evidence to suggest there is almost no will to stop the genocide of the Gazan people coming from within Israel. The word genocide occurs no where in the article. There is no mention of forced removal. There is no mention of ethnic cleansing. These protests clearly have nothing to do with the ongoing genocide of the Gazan people and are solely focused on “getting the hostages back”. If there are other sources or people that can speak for the protests that say other wise, I’d love to find them. I’ve not found anyone in Israel willing to call what the Israeli government is doing a genocide. Dissent in Israel wants the hostages back, but they don’t seem to give a shit about the continuing genocide of the Gazan people.

            If you think that these protest have anything to do with stopping the war or stopping the genocide, its yourself who has gaslit you.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOPM
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              2 months ago

              Let me get this straight…

              Are you really claiming that the entire population of Israel- all 9.5 million people- share exactly the same opinion on Palestine?

              Because that would be incredibly fucking bigoted of you, so I want to make sure that’s what you’re saying.

              • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                2 months ago

                No, I’m making the point that if there is descent on this issue within Israel I can’t find it. I haven’t heard it. I’m also not going to project a desire to believe it exists onto a world where I don’t have evidence for it. I want to find it. I’ve looked for it. I can’t find it.

                All the Jewish led criticism I’ve found of Israels actions appears to be coming from the diaspora. I can’t find sources from within Israel calling the Israeli campaign a genocide or calling for it to stop.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOPM
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  6
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  How many people have you actually heard from? Let’s say percentagewise- what percentage of the 9.5 million Israelis have you heard from to determine that there is no dissent?

                  • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    6
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    I think you need to address the fact that you’ve conflated these protests for something they are not before we can proceed, and I continue to treat with you as if you are engaging in good faith.

                    Can you acknowledge that these protest are not about stopping the genocide of the Palestinian people? That the article is not about stopping genocide? Because you made that conflation previously.