Generative AI art was used to create illustrations for its upcoming expansion, and it sounds like the developer is all-in on using it for its future output.
People usually say that’s the issue, until you show them that it’s possible to generate images and whatnot from models trained on “fully licensed” data. Then they come up with some other reason why evil AI is awful and evil. I’ve been involved in these debates for a long time now and those goalposts have well-worn tracks from how frequently they shift that way.
But it’s clear a lot of people don’t understand why using data without consent is a bad thing in this context
No, they don’t agree that using data without consent is a bad thing. Saying “they don’t understand” it is begging the question, in the literal sense. You’re saying that people who disagree about that are simply being ignorant of some underlying “truth.”
No, they don’t agree that using data without consent is a bad thing.
If this developer doesn’t mind taking data without consent, I hope they don’t have an issue with people pirating their game. That’s a slippery slope if I ever saw one.
“Slippery slope” is also a fallacy. Training an AI and copying a game are two different things and it’s entirely reasonable to hold the position that one is ok and the other is not.
I’m not missing the point. Just because they’re both “using data without consent” doesn’t mean they’re the same thing. Playing baseball and smashing someone’s car both involve swinging a bat but that’s where the similarity ends.
There are many ways that you can “use data without consent” that are perfectly legal.
Legal does not necessarily equate to ethical. And the law will eventually change (I think) to mitigate some of these shortcomings that AI training has highlighted.
Of course not. But “ethical” is a matter of subjective debate. You say X is unethical, I say X is ethical, and ultimately there’s no way to tell who’s “right.”
Law’s different, the whole point of it is to have a system that sorts these things out.
And the law will eventually change (I think) to mitigate some of these shortcomings that AI training has highlighted.
So it’s not currently illegal to train AIs like this? That’s been my point this whole time. It’s a different thing from the things that are currently illegal (such as “theft”).
Currently legal, but unethical. I never claimed it was illegal. (I did mention that scraping usually breaks a TOS, but that’s definitely a legal grey area and moot if its publicly accessible data)
Unethical according to your personal opinion. My opinion on the ethics of the matter differ, and that’s just as valid as yours. You don’t get to declare “that’s unethical” and then expect everyone to just fall in line with your belief. Way back at the root of this you said:
But it’s clear a lot of people don’t understand why using data without consent is a bad thing in this context,
Which, as I argued back then, suggests that you think that the notion that “using data without consent” is a bad thing that people who disagree with you just don’t understand. No, they understand perfectly well. They just disagree with you.
People usually say that’s the issue, until you show them that it’s possible to generate images and whatnot from models trained on “fully licensed” data. Then they come up with some other reason why evil AI is awful and evil. I’ve been involved in these debates for a long time now and those goalposts have well-worn tracks from how frequently they shift that way.
No, they don’t agree that using data without consent is a bad thing. Saying “they don’t understand” it is begging the question, in the literal sense. You’re saying that people who disagree about that are simply being ignorant of some underlying “truth.”
If this developer doesn’t mind taking data without consent, I hope they don’t have an issue with people pirating their game. That’s a slippery slope if I ever saw one.
“Slippery slope” is also a fallacy. Training an AI and copying a game are two different things and it’s entirely reasonable to hold the position that one is ok and the other is not.
You’re missing the point. Both are using data (work of the dev on a game, work of an artist on art) without consent.
I’m not missing the point. Just because they’re both “using data without consent” doesn’t mean they’re the same thing. Playing baseball and smashing someone’s car both involve swinging a bat but that’s where the similarity ends.
There are many ways that you can “use data without consent” that are perfectly legal.
Legal does not necessarily equate to ethical. And the law will eventually change (I think) to mitigate some of these shortcomings that AI training has highlighted.
Of course not. But “ethical” is a matter of subjective debate. You say X is unethical, I say X is ethical, and ultimately there’s no way to tell who’s “right.”
Law’s different, the whole point of it is to have a system that sorts these things out.
So it’s not currently illegal to train AIs like this? That’s been my point this whole time. It’s a different thing from the things that are currently illegal (such as “theft”).
Currently legal, but unethical. I never claimed it was illegal. (I did mention that scraping usually breaks a TOS, but that’s definitely a legal grey area and moot if its publicly accessible data)
Unethical according to your personal opinion. My opinion on the ethics of the matter differ, and that’s just as valid as yours. You don’t get to declare “that’s unethical” and then expect everyone to just fall in line with your belief. Way back at the root of this you said:
Which, as I argued back then, suggests that you think that the notion that “using data without consent” is a bad thing that people who disagree with you just don’t understand. No, they understand perfectly well. They just disagree with you.