The Democratic National Committee is moving ahead with its plans to virtually nominate President Joe Biden in the coming weeks, sending out an email to its members Wednesday morning stressing that that is “the wisest approach” despite fierce backlash from some Democratic lawmakers.
The Democratic Party can do whatever they want. It’s not a conspiracy. They are openly pushing forward the only candidate that got any votes! The time to replace Biden was 10 months ago, not now.
It’s not rocket science. I think most of the people pushing this narrative are not doing so in good faith.
I mean, who is the supposed person to become presidential nominee? And how would we get them in the ballot in 50 states in late July? That is an impossibility. And these assignments never seem to put forward anyone that actually wants the job. It’s just complaints that are either coming from non-good-faith psyops, or ignorance.
I think that’s why it’s being pushed now, to cause the Democrats to change horses mid-stream and cause a fatal error. Democrats can change horses in late January 2025 if they want.
The race is close. 538 has Biden leading by a nose. Everything is within the margin of error. So, time to get on board the Biden train.
This narrative is horseshit. People only think there’s not enough time because Americans think an election is supposed to be four years long. Other countries are more than capable of calling for and finishing their elections in less than a few months.
It’s almost like there’s a convention where all the Democrats are going to be at, where there could be a series of debates that could either demonstrate Biden’s ability to inspire the party, or find someone who can. If only all of the country’s current Democratic representatives were there, we could almost have something like a representative democracy.
What’s actually happening is the DNC doesn’t care, thinks they still have this election in the bag, and just want to ram Biden through irregardless of what members of the public or his own party think or say. They already fucked up by refusing a legitimate primary process, and now their play is to claim their hands are tied. We have 4 months until November; there is time.
So instead, they’re gonna not make a big change and blow it that way instead.
For real, if Biden flubs this whole thing, it’s going to not only shatter every single bit of his vaunted political legacy, but also go down in history as the most absurd and politically idiotic examples of the sunk cost fallacy in modern politics.
What’s actually happening is the DNC doesn’t care, thinks they still have this election in the bag
I agreed with most everything you said, except this part. I believe the DNC decidedly does not think they have this election in the bag. According to most insider accounts they know Joe Biden is going to lose already, and are therefore intentionally resigned to another Trump Presidency.
If they knew Biden is going to lose then they’d replace him. At least then you have a shot.
They believe that he can win and that no one has a better chance of doing so than him. Which is entirely debatable but at least it makes logical sense.
It’s almost like there’s a convention where all the Democrats are going to be at
It’s almost like there’s a convention where the delegates are mostly loyal Biden supporters, you want them to decide who the nominee should be, and you expect them to say someone other than Biden.
I don’t think anyone is advocating for a delegate rebellion at the convention, I think they’re saying “wait until the convention in case Biden drops out”.
no its not. all the democrats are not at the convention only the main party people. all the democrats voted in spring for a president and more importantly a vice president. there is no need change what was voted on because it already has a backup in case of catastrophe. Just like repbulicans have JD now.
Consider the last months before election. Congress is held up by Republicans on public hearings related to the Trump shooting. Trump is holding rallies. Meanwhile the Biden campaign has to limit the nr of Biden appearances due to old age. To defeat the Reps we need a candidate that can be in the spotlight 24/7, and Biden cannot do that job. That’s why changing the candidate is essential.
Nah don’t worry, he can call into softball morning interviews and shuffle papers around to deliver prepared notes. That will certainly send a strong message of capable resilience! Apparently blue maga is strong now.
And how would we get them in the ballot in 50 states in late July? That is an impossibility.
I don’t disagree with you, but this is a little misleading. Whoever the Democratic Party nominates will be on the ballot. They don’t need to gather signatures or anything like that to gain ballot access. They could nominate Harris tomorrow and she would be on the ballot.
Yeah as long as the party meets the state filing deadlines there isn’t any problem. The issue with places like Ohio is that the DNC scheduled their official nomination vote to occur after the Ohio filing deadline.
Fully agreed on Harris, just providing an example. I honestly don’t know if swapping Biden is the right call. I just want them to make a choice and go back to focusing on the danger the GOP brings. If Biden says he can do it, I’ll campaign for him as hard as I possibly can. I will do the same no matter who the Democrats nominate.
We just have to stop the infighting. I really wish the Democratic establishment was more responsive to their constituents, but now is not the time to punish them electorally.
There is no “places like Ohio” - Ohio was the only one. And they passed legislation this year to move the filing deadline back explicitly to accommodate the DNC. So that argument doesn’t hold water at this point.
You are incorrect. Alabama also had to move back their filing deadline to accommodate the DNC.
I’m not making an argument about the filing deadlines, just stating what the issue was. My only concern would be making sure the Democratic candidate is on every state ballot no matter what, even if only to help down ballot candidates.
I stand corrected - Alabama is apparently exactly like Ohio in this case. Both originally had filing deadlines that came before the DNC, and both passed legislation to extend the deadline.
Not sure how I missed that before, but thank you for pointing it out.
It’s not “infighting” if the party pushes an unpopular candidate who ends up losing, that’s just what happens democratically when unpopular candidates run.
Agreed that we hear a lot of this “we need to replace Biden if we want to win” that did not exist prior to the debate. It makes me wonder how much of the confusion is manufactured by outside influencers (just like in 2016) because all the dictators of the world would love to have Trump running the show again. They get anything they want while Trump strips the US for parts and installs his kids to govern over all that can’t escape. He eventually loses the remaining “him” that is left and sits in his money like Scrooge McDuck with full on dementia unaware of what is even going on or where he is.
I’ve known that the DNC would have to replace the incumbent if they wanted to win in 2024 since 2015, when the party revealed its true colors by openly conspiring against their own best candidate in the primary.
Biden only won in 2020 because of a backlash to four years under Trump, and he doesn’t have that advantage anymore. So either the Dems roll out a populist, or the lack of enthusiasm for the candidate gives the White House back to Trump.
The DNC can’t afford to run a Bernie type, their campaign financiers wouldn’t stand for it. So they’ll force Biden through and plan to milk the inevitable electoral loss for as much fundraising as they can.
I don’t see how you grok that Biden won in 2020 because people didn’t like four years under Trump, BUT somehow when Trump has done nothing but double down on his bad ideas and now filled his future cabinet full of Project 2025 folks, that people are willing to choose the choice they know is worse because … enthusiasm? (or lack there of you argue)
This isn’t like picking a sports team, or a popularity contest, or crowning the prom King and Queen. This is a choice between the guy that wants to make life worse for anyone not white, wealthy, and Christofascist - and the guy that people just aren’t “enthusiastic” about. That doesn’t even seem like a serious choice to me, and anyone needing to even contemplate it needs to become a little less self-centered and think about everyone in their life that will without a doubt be affected by Project 2025. They plan to roll back the rights of millions of Americans, from woman, to LGBTQ+, to Hispanic and Black Americans. They plan to setup death camps and round up anyone they see as “unamerican”. They plan to raise everyone’s taxes (unless you make over 340+K a year - those people all the way up to Billionaires get a tax cut). They plan to fire tens of thousands of civil service workers to install people that have taken a pledge to be loyal to Trump and the fascist party. They plan to roll back ALL climate change regulation, and anything that has to do with clean energy. They plan to replace it with coal/oil, and to remove the actual term “climate change” from all government documents and education materials. And the list just goes on and on for over 900 pages.
I don’t see how if your being at all honest, and have even a shred of compassion for ANYONE on this earth, you couldn’t vote for even a potato over Trump and his Project 2025 fascist wet dream. And this is 100% what anyone that doesn’t want to be living under fascism come November should be educating people about. Trumps plan hurts all but his very upper echelon, but the cult will trick these people into voting against their best interests unless the media stops this constant both sides bullshit that has fueled this cult from the beginning.
It’s not about people’s individual choices, it’s about whether or not they’re inspired en masse to take time out of their day to go vote. After four years of Trump people were very ready for not-Trump, and after four years of not-Trump the people who would vote against him have largely forgotten or suppressed the trauma of those years. They are no longer massively aggrieved by Trump’s mishandling of the covid pandemic, which is a large part of why he lost in 2020.
You can explain all the awful things coming if Biden loses, but that doesn’t inspire, that terrifies. Terrified people don’t have hope, and don’t bother to vote like people who expect good things to come in the future. Pessimistic voters are more likely to stay home on voting day.
The fascists are going to win because all liberals have to offer is neoliberalism and bipartisanship, maybe an incremental reform if they can get enough Republicans on board. They hate socialists more than fascists, and their constamt rejection of their own left wing has seen their implementation of Romneycare as their most significant legislation this century.
It’s deliberate. They’re planning to lose because having a Republican in office is good for fundraising and winning would require that they overthrow their own figurehead. The people in a position to change this course were all appointed by Biden and won’t turn on him because their jobs depend on being on his side.
I can understand the outlook of another Trump victory being disenfranchising, that is what the fascists are depending on. It’s Bannon’s flood the field with shit so that you can’t tell wtf is going on, and people just give up.
So knowing this, the non-fascist citizens need to spread the message the best they can about the Rights plan(s). Don’t let people in your circles become disenfranchised, offer to drive them to the polls if need be.
And I think your last point may have held water for the old school Democrats, but this election kinda blows all of that out of the water. Trump has threatened to come after members of Congress should he win. If you aren’t on team fascist you’re not going to be safe from Project 2025. And all the fundraising in the world does nothing if the GOP and the corrupt SCOTUS let Trump just stop elections “for national security” under some “protecting elections” nonsense. He has been priming his cult to accept it for years now.
I’m not going to waste my time driving voters to the polls in a non-swing state, I’m getting as many queer folks out of the red zone as possible before Trump takes office.
Getting people out is commendable. However, if everyone in a non-swing state forgoes voting, that just lowers turnout and will help fuel Trump’s election denial plan the Right will launch if they don’t crown him king on election night.
And I don’t mean to be shitting on someone doing a good thing for a vulnerable group, but we need to win with numbers that are outside any reasonable margin of error.
The confusion after the debate comes from those of us with eyes and ears. There is no world where Joe Biden can be defended as capable of another four years. To believe that is as big a lie as the stolen election nonsense the Rs have been pushing.
It’s a vote for or against fascism. Would anyone else but Biden be a better choice, almost certainly, but currently that’s not an option yet. And Biden is currently doing the job, so he seems at least somewhat capable right now.
So the worst case scenario is Biden doesn’t step aside and we all need to vote Biden and just have Harris try the 25th down the road, but that can all be handled outside the urgency of a fascist coming to power.
I think it’s a lot and the OP is one of those trolls if you look at their post history. I mean, these people do NOTHING but lambast Biden but don’t say shit about Trump. Kind of odd isn’t it?
I bet all these people saying to replace him would hide away if they did and then new polls come out showing the new nominee is trailing Trump by even greater margins. Because that’s precisely what would happen.
538 also is running a brand new model by a new hire as when they let Nate Silver go, he kept the IP to the model that made them famous. Nate Silver just published yesterday a pretty detail list of reasons why you shouldn’t trust the new model they developed. The original model has Biden at a 28% chance of winning, trending down - the 28% is assuming either polling error or that he does something to change the tide, both of which seem less likely than in the past so the model is probably optimistic.
The Democratic Party can do whatever they want. It’s not a conspiracy. They are openly pushing forward the only candidate that got any votes! The time to replace Biden was 10 months ago, not now.
It’s not rocket science. I think most of the people pushing this narrative are not doing so in good faith.
I mean, who is the supposed person to become presidential nominee? And how would we get them in the ballot in 50 states in late July? That is an impossibility. And these assignments never seem to put forward anyone that actually wants the job. It’s just complaints that are either coming from non-good-faith psyops, or ignorance.
I think that’s why it’s being pushed now, to cause the Democrats to change horses mid-stream and cause a fatal error. Democrats can change horses in late January 2025 if they want.
The race is close. 538 has Biden leading by a nose. Everything is within the margin of error. So, time to get on board the Biden train.
This narrative is horseshit. People only think there’s not enough time because Americans think an election is supposed to be four years long. Other countries are more than capable of calling for and finishing their elections in less than a few months.
It’s almost like there’s a convention where all the Democrats are going to be at, where there could be a series of debates that could either demonstrate Biden’s ability to inspire the party, or find someone who can. If only all of the country’s current Democratic representatives were there, we could almost have something like a representative democracy.
What’s actually happening is the DNC doesn’t care, thinks they still have this election in the bag, and just want to ram Biden through irregardless of what members of the public or his own party think or say. They already fucked up by refusing a legitimate primary process, and now their play is to claim their hands are tied. We have 4 months until November; there is time.
No, they absolutely do not. They’re just terrified to make a big change and blow it.
So instead, they’re gonna not make a big change and blow it that way instead.
For real, if Biden flubs this whole thing, it’s going to not only shatter every single bit of his vaunted political legacy, but also go down in history as the most absurd and politically idiotic examples of the sunk cost fallacy in modern politics.
Also bystander effect. Whose responsibility is it?
Theirs, they’re the party.
Replacing a candidate now would be a huge gamble, a wild card. You never know what dirt can be brought up to ruin a new candidate’s look.
I agreed with most everything you said, except this part. I believe the DNC decidedly does not think they have this election in the bag. According to most insider accounts they know Joe Biden is going to lose already, and are therefore intentionally resigned to another Trump Presidency.
If they knew Biden is going to lose then they’d replace him. At least then you have a shot.
They believe that he can win and that no one has a better chance of doing so than him. Which is entirely debatable but at least it makes logical sense.
It’s almost like there’s a convention where the delegates are mostly loyal Biden supporters, you want them to decide who the nominee should be, and you expect them to say someone other than Biden.
Sure doesn’t seem that way. In fact, it seems like the number of dissenters within the party keeps growing each day.
They aren’t the delegates. Delegates are mostly chosen for their personal loyalty to the candidate.
I don’t think anyone is advocating for a delegate rebellion at the convention, I think they’re saying “wait until the convention in case Biden drops out”.
no its not. all the democrats are not at the convention only the main party people. all the democrats voted in spring for a president and more importantly a vice president. there is no need change what was voted on because it already has a backup in case of catastrophe. Just like repbulicans have JD now.
Consider the last months before election. Congress is held up by Republicans on public hearings related to the Trump shooting. Trump is holding rallies. Meanwhile the Biden campaign has to limit the nr of Biden appearances due to old age. To defeat the Reps we need a candidate that can be in the spotlight 24/7, and Biden cannot do that job. That’s why changing the candidate is essential.
Nah don’t worry, he can call into softball morning interviews and shuffle papers around to deliver prepared notes. That will certainly send a strong message of capable resilience! Apparently blue maga is strong now.
I don’t disagree with you, but this is a little misleading. Whoever the Democratic Party nominates will be on the ballot. They don’t need to gather signatures or anything like that to gain ballot access. They could nominate Harris tomorrow and she would be on the ballot.
In every state? The GOP said they would fight it and challenge it everywhere.
Besides, Harris supports Biden as Pres right now.
Yeah as long as the party meets the state filing deadlines there isn’t any problem. The issue with places like Ohio is that the DNC scheduled their official nomination vote to occur after the Ohio filing deadline.
Fully agreed on Harris, just providing an example. I honestly don’t know if swapping Biden is the right call. I just want them to make a choice and go back to focusing on the danger the GOP brings. If Biden says he can do it, I’ll campaign for him as hard as I possibly can. I will do the same no matter who the Democrats nominate.
We just have to stop the infighting. I really wish the Democratic establishment was more responsive to their constituents, but now is not the time to punish them electorally.
There is no “places like Ohio” - Ohio was the only one. And they passed legislation this year to move the filing deadline back explicitly to accommodate the DNC. So that argument doesn’t hold water at this point.Edit: See below for correction
You are incorrect. Alabama also had to move back their filing deadline to accommodate the DNC.
I’m not making an argument about the filing deadlines, just stating what the issue was. My only concern would be making sure the Democratic candidate is on every state ballot no matter what, even if only to help down ballot candidates.
I stand corrected - Alabama is apparently exactly like Ohio in this case. Both originally had filing deadlines that came before the DNC, and both passed legislation to extend the deadline.
Not sure how I missed that before, but thank you for pointing it out.
It’s not “infighting” if the party pushes an unpopular candidate who ends up losing, that’s just what happens democratically when unpopular candidates run.
To poorly quote John Oliver, if Britain and France can do it, so can we.
Agreed that we hear a lot of this “we need to replace Biden if we want to win” that did not exist prior to the debate. It makes me wonder how much of the confusion is manufactured by outside influencers (just like in 2016) because all the dictators of the world would love to have Trump running the show again. They get anything they want while Trump strips the US for parts and installs his kids to govern over all that can’t escape. He eventually loses the remaining “him” that is left and sits in his money like Scrooge McDuck with full on dementia unaware of what is even going on or where he is.
I’ve known that the DNC would have to replace the incumbent if they wanted to win in 2024 since 2015, when the party revealed its true colors by openly conspiring against their own best candidate in the primary.
Biden only won in 2020 because of a backlash to four years under Trump, and he doesn’t have that advantage anymore. So either the Dems roll out a populist, or the lack of enthusiasm for the candidate gives the White House back to Trump.
The DNC can’t afford to run a Bernie type, their campaign financiers wouldn’t stand for it. So they’ll force Biden through and plan to milk the inevitable electoral loss for as much fundraising as they can.
I don’t see how you grok that Biden won in 2020 because people didn’t like four years under Trump, BUT somehow when Trump has done nothing but double down on his bad ideas and now filled his future cabinet full of Project 2025 folks, that people are willing to choose the choice they know is worse because … enthusiasm? (or lack there of you argue)
This isn’t like picking a sports team, or a popularity contest, or crowning the prom King and Queen. This is a choice between the guy that wants to make life worse for anyone not white, wealthy, and Christofascist - and the guy that people just aren’t “enthusiastic” about. That doesn’t even seem like a serious choice to me, and anyone needing to even contemplate it needs to become a little less self-centered and think about everyone in their life that will without a doubt be affected by Project 2025. They plan to roll back the rights of millions of Americans, from woman, to LGBTQ+, to Hispanic and Black Americans. They plan to setup death camps and round up anyone they see as “unamerican”. They plan to raise everyone’s taxes (unless you make over 340+K a year - those people all the way up to Billionaires get a tax cut). They plan to fire tens of thousands of civil service workers to install people that have taken a pledge to be loyal to Trump and the fascist party. They plan to roll back ALL climate change regulation, and anything that has to do with clean energy. They plan to replace it with coal/oil, and to remove the actual term “climate change” from all government documents and education materials. And the list just goes on and on for over 900 pages.
I don’t see how if your being at all honest, and have even a shred of compassion for ANYONE on this earth, you couldn’t vote for even a potato over Trump and his Project 2025 fascist wet dream. And this is 100% what anyone that doesn’t want to be living under fascism come November should be educating people about. Trumps plan hurts all but his very upper echelon, but the cult will trick these people into voting against their best interests unless the media stops this constant both sides bullshit that has fueled this cult from the beginning.
/rant
It’s not about people’s individual choices, it’s about whether or not they’re inspired en masse to take time out of their day to go vote. After four years of Trump people were very ready for not-Trump, and after four years of not-Trump the people who would vote against him have largely forgotten or suppressed the trauma of those years. They are no longer massively aggrieved by Trump’s mishandling of the covid pandemic, which is a large part of why he lost in 2020.
You can explain all the awful things coming if Biden loses, but that doesn’t inspire, that terrifies. Terrified people don’t have hope, and don’t bother to vote like people who expect good things to come in the future. Pessimistic voters are more likely to stay home on voting day.
The fascists are going to win because all liberals have to offer is neoliberalism and bipartisanship, maybe an incremental reform if they can get enough Republicans on board. They hate socialists more than fascists, and their constamt rejection of their own left wing has seen their implementation of Romneycare as their most significant legislation this century.
It’s deliberate. They’re planning to lose because having a Republican in office is good for fundraising and winning would require that they overthrow their own figurehead. The people in a position to change this course were all appointed by Biden and won’t turn on him because their jobs depend on being on his side.
I can understand the outlook of another Trump victory being disenfranchising, that is what the fascists are depending on. It’s Bannon’s flood the field with shit so that you can’t tell wtf is going on, and people just give up.
So knowing this, the non-fascist citizens need to spread the message the best they can about the Rights plan(s). Don’t let people in your circles become disenfranchised, offer to drive them to the polls if need be.
And I think your last point may have held water for the old school Democrats, but this election kinda blows all of that out of the water. Trump has threatened to come after members of Congress should he win. If you aren’t on team fascist you’re not going to be safe from Project 2025. And all the fundraising in the world does nothing if the GOP and the corrupt SCOTUS let Trump just stop elections “for national security” under some “protecting elections” nonsense. He has been priming his cult to accept it for years now.
I’m not going to waste my time driving voters to the polls in a non-swing state, I’m getting as many queer folks out of the red zone as possible before Trump takes office.
Getting people out is commendable. However, if everyone in a non-swing state forgoes voting, that just lowers turnout and will help fuel Trump’s election denial plan the Right will launch if they don’t crown him king on election night.
And I don’t mean to be shitting on someone doing a good thing for a vulnerable group, but we need to win with numbers that are outside any reasonable margin of error.
The confusion after the debate comes from those of us with eyes and ears. There is no world where Joe Biden can be defended as capable of another four years. To believe that is as big a lie as the stolen election nonsense the Rs have been pushing.
It’s a vote for or against fascism. Would anyone else but Biden be a better choice, almost certainly, but currently that’s not an option yet. And Biden is currently doing the job, so he seems at least somewhat capable right now.
So the worst case scenario is Biden doesn’t step aside and we all need to vote Biden and just have Harris try the 25th down the road, but that can all be handled outside the urgency of a fascist coming to power.
I think it’s a lot and the OP is one of those trolls if you look at their post history. I mean, these people do NOTHING but lambast Biden but don’t say shit about Trump. Kind of odd isn’t it?
I bet all these people saying to replace him would hide away if they did and then new polls come out showing the new nominee is trailing Trump by even greater margins. Because that’s precisely what would happen.
Can you link what you’re citing? If it’s national polling, Biden appears to be trailing by a nose.
EDIT: I think I found the link corroborating what you said.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/?cid=rrpromo
538 also is running a brand new model by a new hire as when they let Nate Silver go, he kept the IP to the model that made them famous. Nate Silver just published yesterday a pretty detail list of reasons why you shouldn’t trust the new model they developed. The original model has Biden at a 28% chance of winning, trending down - the 28% is assuming either polling error or that he does something to change the tide, both of which seem less likely than in the past so the model is probably optimistic.