• FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    An attack is a casus belli even without seizing territory.

    For example, if Putin launched missiles at Warsaw or DC, he would start a war. It makes no difference if any territory is taken.

      • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        A missile strike is a legitimate casus belli. If you’re not a pacifist, that means it justifies force to achieve a military objective, which necessarily justifies killing civilians.

        Whether that’s “countless” or a few depends on the objective.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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          5 months ago

          Yes, I get that you think that as long as it fits the military goal, killing any amount of children is justified.

          And I’m telling you that position is disgusting and abhorrent.

          • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            There is no military goal that justifies killing “any amount” of civilians. All of them have limits, which are based on military capabilities.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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              5 months ago

              Okay, what is the limit of children the IDF should be able to kill before it is no longer justified? Give me a number.

              • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                In general, civilian-combatant casualty ratios range from 1:1 to 5:1. They tend to be higher in urban settings like Gaza. The Chechen wars were closer to 7-10:1

                The US estimates 15,000 combatants have been killed in Gaza. If so, we would consider 15,000 to 75,000 civilian deaths to be normal at this point.

                • livus@kbin.social
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                  5 months ago

                  Anyone reading along in this thread should probably check the veracity of these claimed ratios. Wikipedia has an okay overview.

                  It’s also worth noting that the Russian wars in Chechnya were particularly notable for their brutal war crimes.

                  @FlyingSquid

                  • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    I’ll save you the effort:

                    • Mexican American War, 1:1
                    • WW1, 1:1
                    • WW2, between 3:2 and 2:1
                    • Korean War, 3:1
                    • Vietnam War, between 1:3 and 2:1
                    • Lebanon War, between 4:1 and 6:1
                    • Chechen Wars, 10:1 (first), 4:1 (second), 7.6:1 (overall)
                    • Yugoslav War: between 1:10 and 10:1
                    • Iraq War: between 1:2 and 3:1
                    • Mosul: between 0.7:1 and 1.5:1

                    If there are 15,000 combatants among the 35,000 dead in Gaza, then this war stands at 1.3:1

                • Natanael@slrpnk.net
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                  5 months ago

                  Israel themselves said they would accept 15 dead civilians for low level Hamas staff and 100+ for higher ranking ones.

                  And they overshoot hard.

                  IDF count every male above 16 as Hamas by default. You’re gonna get a lot of false positives that way

                  • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    I consider all civilians to be equal, so I’m not going to separate children for the same reason I’m not going to separate Palestinian Christians, mothers, teachers, or retirees.