A couple hours before I was on the edge of getting a Fairphone 5 but I read the specifications and didnā€™t see 3.5 mm audio jack anywhere. So I thought to myselfā€¦why? The community has been requesting this for a couple years ago now so why not. Theyā€™re already making money on the phone, theyā€™re really pushing for people to get their wireless headphones? Just add the headphone jack, shouldnā€™t be too hard.

They said theyā€™re treating their workers fairly, sourcing from ethical sources, renewable claims, repairability claims, and supporting foss projects (they donated a fp4 to CalyxOS to support development). All of these are amazing, so adding a little headphone jack shouldnā€™t be that hard in the grand scheme of all this.

*Add the headphone jack and Iā€™ll be happy to support and get a fp5.

https://calyxos.org/news/2022/02/25/device-support/

https://shop.fairphone.com/fairphone-5

  • ghandi9@lemmy.meg.li
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    1 year ago

    This is how it should be done: you introduce new, better standards, people switch and when itā€™s actually obsolete (no one is using it any more) you remove it.

    I think there is a fair argument to be made that back when apple pushed away from it, it was forced. I personally didnā€™t care, but I understand why some people did.

    But thatā€™s not what we are talking about, we are talking about todayā€¦ Whatā€™s done is doneā€¦

    People were (and are) still using mini jacks

    Most people werenā€™t and certainly arenā€™tā€¦ The people who still cling to the jack never seem to understand this, but most smartphone users simply donā€™t care about audio quality on their phoneā€¦ Most people donā€™t even listen to music on their phoneā€¦ And among those who do, most donā€™t care or even notice the loss of quality with wirelessā€¦ And for the few who care, there are alternatives, such as adaptersā€¦

    And just as a reminder, we are talking about the upcoming fairphone 5, a device that has the goal of lasting 10 yearsā€¦ There is no reasonable justification for putting a port on it that has by now virtually disappeared from the smartphone market and that most people would never useā€¦

    • ExLisper@linux.community
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      1 year ago

      Most people donā€™t even listen to music on their phone

      Wow, thatā€™s a bold statement. After a quick ddg:

      There are some useful stats on ā€˜device shareā€™ of music listening time in the IFPIā€™s report. Radios are still the most popular device, accounting for 29% of the time respondents spend listening to music. However, smartphones are just behind, with a 27% share of listening time ā€“ unchanged from the IFPIā€™s 2018 study.

      Of course, smartphones are bigger for younger listeners: they account for 44% off the time 16-24 year-olds spend listening to music, according to the study.

      So yeah, ā€˜most people donā€™t listen to music on their phonesā€™ is only true in the sense that most people in the world donā€™t own a phone. Lots and lots of people actually do it. I think youā€™re looking at yourself and thinking that everyone is using a phone the same way you do. In reality people were used to just plugging their headphones into heir phone and now they canā€™t. New standard was pushed on them and the only reason was to make some extra money on AirPods. Are the phones without mini jack cheaper? No. Are the USB headphones better? No. So yeah, people will move on in the end but they are right to complain. If we donā€™t companies will just do it again.

      • ghandi9@lemmy.meg.li
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        1 year ago

        Wow, thatā€™s a bold statement.

        If you think that it is a bold statement you absolutely live in a bubbleā€¦

        in the sense that most people in the world donā€™t own a phone.

        Most people in the world do own a phoneā€¦ About 75% of the global populationā€¦ Itā€™s just that most use it to access the internet, write mails or, you know, call peopleā€¦

        As your study says, young people do listen to music on their phones. It even surprises me a bit that they only listen to 44% of their music on their phone, but otherwise, no objection. But not every smartphone user is a young personā€¦ And even those that do use their phone to listen to music, not all of them listen with headphones. Many use it to play music in their car, or connect it to speakers, or even use their built in speakers, etc.

        I think youā€™re looking at yourself and thinking that everyone is using a phone the same way you do.

        I used to, but the thing is, I do actually listen to music on my phone. Not as much as I used to, but I still do from time to time. And many in my immediate environment do too. But overtime, I realized that most people donā€™t use their phone the same way I do, especially older people and non-technical savy people. Most listen to music in their car, or on the radio.

        In reality people were used to just plugging their headphones into heir phone and now they canā€™t.

        In reality, most people simply did not really care very muchā€¦ And more importantly, virtually nobody cares todayā€¦

        New standard was pushed on them and the only reason was to make some extra money on AirPods.

        Correct, and virtually everyone just shrugged and accepted it because most people did not care all that muchā€¦

        So yeah, people will move on in the end but they are right to complain.

        My dude, people have already moved on years agoā€¦ Apple removed the jack in 2017ā€¦ Which is why I think itā€™s ridiculous that people still act as if this is a controversial issue, let alone a dealbreaker, looking towards the futureā€¦

        • ExLisper@linux.community
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          1 year ago

          OK, so a quoter of all music consumed everywhere is consumed on the phone but you still claim that people donā€™t use phones for music. I mean, if thatā€™s your point of view then obviously you will say that nothing related to music on phones matters. If you ignore all the people that care about an issue you will conclude that no one cares. Even though obviolsy a lot of people still careā€¦

          • ghandi9@lemmy.meg.li
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            1 year ago

            still claim that people donā€™t use phones for music.

            But I have never claimed that ā€œpeople donā€™t use phones for musicā€, I claimed that most people donā€™t use their phone to listen to music on their headphonesā€¦ Many do, me included, but most simply donā€™tā€¦

            If you ignore all the people that care about an issue you will conclude that no one cares.

            But I donā€™t conclude that nobody caresā€¦ Obviously at least some people care, this post was made by somebody who does for exampleā€¦ But the thing is that a majority of people donā€™tā€¦

            • ExLisper@linux.community
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              1 year ago

              You keep making the same point: majority/most people didnā€™t care so itā€™s ok. I get it. You have a different standard. If a corporation can get away with something because most people will still blindly buy itā€™s product itā€™s ok for them to do it. But for me what Apple did was wrong. Mini jack was not obsolete, significant (for me, I know not significant enough for you) number of people were still using it and their decision didnā€™t result in a better or cheaper product. It just made them more money while removing important feature for a lot of people (again, I know, not enough for you to care). And I simply try not to reward such behavior. Even you admitted they only did it for profit, not to deliver better product but you just donā€™t care. Thatā€™s fine, just donā€™t criticize people that do care. It costs as little to protest (by avoiding companies that do the same) and weā€™ll do it as long as we can.

              • ghandi9@lemmy.meg.li
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                1 year ago

                You keep making the same point

                You made a claim that I wrote something I didnā€™t write, do you expect me to just let you put words into my mouth?

                You have a different standard.

                The vast majority of people interested in the fairphone have ā€œa different standardā€ā€¦

                But for me what Apple did was wrong.

                Ok, great, you have an opinion. An opinion I can completely understand. What does it have to do with this post though?

                Mini jack was not obsolete

                It wasnā€™t. But itā€™s not 2017 anymoreā€¦

                Even you admitted they only did it for profit

                Of course they did, why else would they do it, they are a company.

                just donā€™t criticize people that do care.

                I will criticize whoever I want because itā€™s fucking annoying to have the self-rightous jack defenders pretend martyrers proudly proclaim that they will sacrifice themself and not buy the newest fairphone because ā€œfairphone went against community demandsā€ and act as if they are the majority and represent the views of ā€œthe communityā€ IN 2023ā€¦

                They donā€™tā€¦ Most people in the fairphone community didnā€™t care about the jack back when it was removedā€¦ Most members of the community preferred a slimmer phone to a headphone jack back when the last fairphone was released. And despite of this, you still had some loud-mouths who acted as if their opinions alone represent ā€œthe communityā€, ignored all the discussion in the community and claimed that fairphone acted against community interest.

                And as ā€œa member of the fairphone communityā€, I didnā€™t say anything, like most who donā€™t care about the jack, because I donā€™t care about the jack, I care about being able to change parts, I care about it lasting for many years and I care about it being small enough to fit in my pocket comfortably.

                That was years ago, back when the fairphone decided to do this. And now, the upcoming model doesnā€™t bring it back (to the surprise of virtually nobody) and you have the same wannabe martyrers saying stuff like ā€œjust bring it back, how hard can it be, the community demands itā€ā€¦ No, the community doesnā€™t demand itā€¦ The community demands a modular and long lasting phone that is slim and cheap at the same timeā€¦

                weā€™ll do it as long as we can

                Do whatever pointless posturing you want, just donā€™t act as if you are in the majority or represent all of a community when you donā€™tā€¦

                • ExLisper@linux.community
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                  1 year ago

                  What I mean that youā€™re only point is ā€œyouā€™re not the majority so shut upā€. Youā€™re confusing this with some zero-sum game. Me having a mini jack in the phone doesnā€™t mean that you, a person that doesnā€™t care about one, is somehow disadvantaged. There still are flagship phones with mini jacks. Those phones are not bigger or more expensive. You agreed already that Apple didnā€™t remove the mini jack to make the phone smaller, it was just to make more money. Itā€™s the same 7 years later, people still donā€™t believe itā€™s for any other reason than to make a little bit more money. Ok, so youā€™re a docile consumer. When company does something you donā€™t like you just say 'well, Iā€™m in the minority, I will still just buy it without complaining". Thatā€™s ok, do you. Itā€™s just weird youā€™re so annoyed with people who do complain, especially on lemmy. Linux has ~3% market share. I guess we should just stop complaining when companies donā€™t support it, majority of people donā€™t care. Most people donā€™t care about privacy, they care about cheap and easy products, letā€™s stop complaining about Google and Meta tracking everyone. And obviously no one here represents any community. People just express their opinions.

                  • ghandi9@lemmy.meg.li
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                    1 year ago

                    What I mean that youā€™re only point is ā€œyouā€™re not the majority so shut upā€.

                    My only point is ā€œyouā€™re not the majorityā€, you donā€™t even need to shut up, you can have whatever opinion you want to have, just donā€™t pretend to represent ā€œthe communityā€ when you donā€™tā€¦

                    Me having a mini jack in the phone doesnā€™t mean that you, a person that doesnā€™t care about one, is somehow disadvantaged.

                    Itā€™s an additional port that needs to be included into the design and that needs physical space. And itā€™s another way to get dust and/or fluids into the phone, all without any benefit for me or most usersā€¦ You can claim that the impact is minimal, but there still is an unnecessary impact.

                    You agreed already that Apple didnā€™t remove the mini jack to make the phone smaller, it was just to make more money.

                    Everything apple does and other companies do is to make more money, thatā€™s pretty much the entire motivation behind anything companies doā€¦

                    Itā€™s the same 7 years later, people still donā€™t believe itā€™s for any other reason than to make a little bit more money.

                    Of course it is to ā€œmake more moneyā€, or rather to save money on things that have no measurable benefit for most usersā€¦

                    Ok, so youā€™re a docile consumer. When company does something you donā€™t like you just say 'well, Iā€™m in the minority, I will still just buy it without complaining".

                    No, when a company does something I donā€™t like or that is a dealbreaker for me, I donā€™t buy the productā€¦

                    Itā€™s just weird youā€™re so annoyed with people who do complain, especially on lemmy.

                    People can complain about whatever they want. What is annoying to me is when people say stuff like ā€œthe community has been requesting this for a couple years ago now so why not.ā€ or ā€œadding a little headphone jack shouldnā€™t be that hardā€ when this debate has been settled years ago alreadyā€¦

                    Linux has ~3% market share. I guess we should just stop complaining when companies donā€™t support it, majority of people donā€™t care. Most people donā€™t care about privacy, they care about cheap and easy products, letā€™s stop complaining about Google and Meta tracking everyone.

                    Again, you can complain all you want. But if somebody made a post saying ā€œGoogle is still using, selling and tracking user data. The community has been requesting that they stop doing that years ago, so why do they still do it? They only do it to make money. Just stop doing it, shouldnā€™t be too hard.ā€, it would in my opinion be a ridiculous and pointless postā€¦

                • Icalasari@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Devilā€™s Advocate as I agree with you, but feel this point should be covered:

                  Why not make a headphone jack module? If the phone is so easy to repair, then it should be pretty modular, so giving a choice (and probably making it one of the most expensive modules because the demand is DEFINITELY not going to be there to make it cheap through numbers) could not hurt and only help the FairPhone, right?

                  Again, Devilā€™s advocate, I already know a few potential arguments, but I feel like it was a point being ignored that should be covered