I know the two groups view post-Mao China in very different ways. MLM denounce everything, claiming that the entire party has succumbed to capitalist revision, that they were all pretend communists who truly believed in nothing.

Or the views of MLs who say that the CPC was right to open up like the NEP, to improve material conditions in order to develop to a higher stage of socialism. But how does this contradict anything from Mao?

How does this contradict New Democracy? Coalitions formed through the class system under the leadership of the CPC. That sounds like Deng propaganda!

Deng allowed for the creation of a new bourgeoisie that it nonetheless kept under the rule of the Party. Xi currently shows this best of all with the anti-corruption campaigns. If these billionaires lived in any other country they’d be the ruling class, but in China they’re not. It still is a DotP.

How is the improvement of material conditions not a vitally Maoist position?

Regardless of your opinions on the Cultural Revolution, for most of Mao’s life his theory was incredibly pragmatic. What mattered most was actually creating a proletarian state, and so most of his ideas comes from that war perspective.

And even the name Dengism, it’s not a real -ism. Deng is right, he was a a committed Marxist, but his thought is really just a continuation of Mao and Lenin. As such modern China is not Dengist but are still committed to ML.

But again why is there this ideological split? It seems the only aspect of MLM that ML reject is a denunciation of the CPC. Because I don’t think there’s anything from Mao that contradicts or majorly reverses previously held ideas. (thus as ML inverting the idea of revolution in the imperial core to outside it in the periphery). In the same way I don’t see much of the reform phase that is antithetical to anything from Mao.

  • qwename@lemmygrad.ml
    1·
    1 year ago

    First of all, I think it’s important to realize that people who have lived through the Mao-era, the pre-PRC era (before 1949), and even pre-CPC era (before 1921) are still living and breathing in China.

    Here are some relevant population statistics from China’s Seventh National Population Census conducted in 2020 (71 years since the founding of the PRC in 1949, 99 years since the founding of the CPC in 1921):

    • 70 to 74 years old: 15,504,914
    • 75 to 79 years old: 9,606,840
    • 80 to 84 years old: 6,800,356
    • 85 to 89 years old: 3,687,435
    • 90 to 94 years old: 1,252,811
    • 95 to 99 years old: 279,430
    • 100 years old or more: 40,382
    • Total for the above age groups: 37,172,168.

    I looked up the current population of different countries in the world, and Canada has around 38 milllion people, so the number of people over 70 years old in China in 2020 rivals that of Canada’s entire population.

    Now back to the topic of “Maoism vs Dengism”. There are definitely self-proclaimed Maoists in China and within the CPC who genuinely hate Reform and Opening Up and rampant liberal/capitalist views shared by a sizable amount of people since then. But going further as to pit one leader against another is not something that people who support a united China would do.

    Anyone who tries to pit one Chinese leader against another is trying to split the CPC into factions and create sectarian infighting, which would sow discord and create confusion both within the party and across the country. China will not replicate the downfall of the Soviet Union by allowing such damage to unity/cohesion to occur. It’s not just “Mao vs Deng”, any combination of “X vs Y” can be created as long as there is a need for such topics, but “Mao vs Deng” is definitely a hot favourite due to their profound impact on China.

    If “Maoists” are worried that the top CPC leaders are actually capitalists who sneaked into the party pretending to be Marxists, I would ask how they can “prove” to anyone that they are “genuine Maoists”. Trying to “prove” anyone’s belief isn’t going to work by debate, nor is there any widely-available mind-reading technology yet. It all comes down to what someone says and does, but more emphasis should be given to what they’ve done, while also keeping in mind what they’ve said.

    “Maoists” followed Mao when he was still living, there’s not much to complain about there other than possible lack of critical thinking. After Mao’s death and since Reform and Opening Up, it’s understandable that they worry about building up local capital and inviting foreign investment, so far so good. But it’s currently 2023, and “Maoists” who still question the integrity of the CPC today are actually helping western capitalists by questioning the strongest socialist competitor to capitalism that exists today.