More video and eyewitness info on Al Jazeera so far

Also reported on Common Dreams and Middle East Eye.

I haven’t found any reports of any independent investigations yet, hopefully they are underway

  • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    9 months ago

    Here’s the problem… For the past several decades or so, Israel has blockaded Gaza and the West Bank from getting any kind of support from the outside.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

    They don’t have the material or the personnel to do ANYTHING about the violence being enacted against the Israelis and that’s BY THE DESIGN of the Israelis.

    So what do you expect the Palestinians to do? Israeli policies have been crushing them for decades, they don’t have the capacity to throw out Hamas because Israel actively prevents them from having the capacity. Sooo? Obtain weapons illegally? Now in the eyes of Israel they ARE Hamas and they get attacked too.

    • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      9 months ago

      It gets even worse, because it means they don’t have great access to information either.

      There was a video soon after Oct 7 that showed Palestinians celebrating in the streets. They hadn’t been told about the civilian deaths or kidnappings though, only that a prison had been liberated. And that context wasn’t shown alongside their celebrations when Israelis saw it.

      The suppression of information has led to misunderstandings that perpetuate the hate and the war. Just as Netanyahu wants, I suspect.

    • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      9 months ago

      Except Gaza shares a border with Egypt that Israel was not controlling before the Oct. 7 war and I’m not sure if they are controlling it now.

      Israel is preventing Palestinians from overthrowing Hamas? Why would that be true and what evidence of that claim do you have?

      You can’t defend people and strip them of all agency at the same time.

      • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        9 months ago

        Israel blocks all materials that the Palestinians would need to throw out Hamas and they have been doing that for decades.

        So, again, what do you expect the Palestinians to do?

        • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          9 months ago

          So to the best of your knowledge, there has not been a single uprising attempt against Hamas, and the Jews in Israel are to blame?

          Wow.

          • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            9 months ago

            No, again, Israel has COMPLETELY blockaded Gaza.

            The Palestinians don’t have anything with which to even attempt to throw out Hamas.

            So what would you have them do? What do you think Israel’s reaction would be if they tried to smuggle weapons in through the blockade?

            Again, this is all Israel’s design. They could lift the blockade today. They could normalize relations with the Palestinians today. They won’t, because what they really want is to choke them out and steal their land. They won’t be satisfied with less.

            https://newrepublic.com/post/178243/benjamin-netanyahu-literally-says-from-the-river-to-the-sea

            “According to other translations, Netanyahu said that Israel “must have security control over the entire territory west of the Jordan River,””

            • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              6
              arrow-down
              6
              ·
              9 months ago

              So your argument is essentially that the Jews are to blame for terrorist actions against them and the terrorists themselves should not be held accountable because the Jews won’t allow it…

              I’m not sure if you personally are an antisemite but the people telling you this nonsense clearly are and I think you should start considering how these arguments come across to people who aren’t antisemites.

              • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                9 months ago

                No, I’m saying Israel is to blame for the Palestinians inability to do anything about Hamas.

                If you want Hamas gone, stop treating Palestinians like terrorists.

                • bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  arrow-down
                  4
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  I’m not the one treating Palestinians like terrorists, you are. You are the one claiming they support terrorism against Israel because Israel forced them into it.

                  That’s nonsense and you don’t believe that.

                  • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    5
                    arrow-down
                    3
                    ·
                    9 months ago

                    I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying they are incapable of dealing with Hamas on their own because Israel does not allow them the supplies and support they need to be able to deal with them.

                    If Israel lifted the blockade and allowed the Palestinian Authority to act on their own, as an independent government, Hamas would be gone.

                    Israel will never do that, because they see all Palestinians as the enemy.

                    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/24/israel-gaza-world-leaders-un-genocide-palestinians

                    “Israel’s former chief military advocate general and the country’s former attorney general no less, who declared that to destroy Hamas “then you have to destroy Gaza, because everything in Gaza, almost every building there, is a stronghold of Hamas”.”

    • zerog_bandit@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks

      Israel fully withdrew from Gaza and displaced Israelis that had been living in Gaza since the 1940s because of two decades of terror bombings of busses in Israel.

      I vehemently oppose the use of violence to achieve political goals in all forms.

      I would suggest educating yourself on this conflict and the historical reasons for the state of the conflict today.