We (me with a friend) created this page https://openwebdefenders.org and planning to create banners for websites that may want to inform their users on what’s going on.
If anyone wants to contribute somehow or have other ideas I would be happy to discuss on https://github.com/openwebdefenders/web/issues
Do you use browsers other than the mainstream ones like Chrome or Firefox? Third-party browsers, especially those that prioritize privacy or offer unique features, might be labeled “untrusted,” limiting your browsing experience.
This suggests that firefox will be trusted, because it’s mainstream, which is not true, because Mozilla won’t implement WEI, and therefore malicious websites won’t be able to verify “environment integrity”
Besides that, nice website and thanks for your efforts on fighting with WEI.
Mozilla won’t implement WEI
They are going to fight against WEI. Tooth and nails, for our sakes!
Just like they did with EME, the closed source video DRM in 2014. By being deeply concerned with the direction the web is going, and definitely against it, but…
We face a choice between a feature our users want and the degree to which that feature can be built to embody user control and privacy.
With most competing browsers and the content industry embracing the W3C EME specification, Mozilla has little choice but to implement EME as well so our users can continue to access all content they want to enjoy.
Despite our dislike of DRM, we have come to believe Firefox needs to provide a mechanism for people to watch DRM-controlled content.
DRM requires closed systems to operate as currently required and is designed to remove user control, so Mozilla is taking steps to find alternative solutions to DRM. But Mozilla also believes that until an alternative system is in place, Firefox users should be able to choose whether to interact with DRM in order to watch streaming videos in the browser.
https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/drm-and-the-challenge-of-serving-users/
https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/05/reconciling-mozillas-mission-and-w3c-eme/
I’d also argue Firefox is hardly mainstream at ~3% usage. Edge would be a better replacement given it comes with every Windows install (and many corporate environments don’t allow using an alternative).
It is only used by 3%!? Wasn’t it at around 30% some years ago (not counting netscape)? This comes really as a surprise to me because in my circles even around half of non-tech inclined windows users use firefox.
Why did it lose so many users?
edge is chrome
I am not convinced Mozilla will refuse to implement WEI when push comes to shove. Mozilla already supports Netflix playback with drm, right?
But isn’t it quite the jump from mozilla accepting drm from a service in an indistry that has invented drm to them accepting a blanket drm for the web? I think it’s kind of not guilty until proven for mozilla. They have so far (to my knowledge) not done anything very anti consumer.
I’m just saying we can’t just trust Mozilla leadership will do the right thing…
Nah, I say we don’t run around villainizing everyone and stay with thos who fucked us over in the past. Otherwise we can trust exactly no one.
That’s exactly right. Don’t blindly trust anyone. Hold them accountable.
Thank you for making an informative and non-alarmist website around the topic of Web Environment Integrity.
I’ve seen (and being downvoted for arguing against) so many articles, posts, and comments taking a sensationalized approach to the discussion around it, and it’s nice to finally see some genuine and wholly factual coverage of it.
I really can’t understate how much I appreciate your efforts towards ethical reporting here. You guys don’t use alarm words like “DRM,” and you went through the effort of actually explaining both what WEI does and how it poses a risk for the open web. Nothing clickybaity, ragebaity, and you don’t frame it dishonesty. Just a good, objective description of what it is in its current form and how that could be changed to everything people are worried about.
Is there anything that someone like me could help contribute with? It seems like our goals (informing users without inciting them, so they can create useful feedback without FUD and misinformation) align, and I’d love to help out any way I can. I read the (at the time incomplete) specs and explainer for WEI, and I could probably write a couple of paragraphs going over what they promised or omitted. If you check my post history, I also have a couple of my own example of how the WEI spec could be abused to harm users.
Change the sentence “Do you use browsers other than the mainstream ones like Chrome or Firefox” because Firefox is already a very small third-party browser.
How is Firefox a small 3rd party browser? FF is the basis for browsers like libreoffice, icewolf etc… it is not 3rd party, it is first party like chrome, opera and safari. Actually if you want to go that far, chrome actually started off as a fork of opera
Firefox is used by less than 3% of the users, it should not be used in this sentence. Also I’m not sure they’ll implement the integrity thing, which is another issue.
I understand what glad_cat means, and they are kinda correct. On the other hand, FF (at least, for now) won’t be implementing this change.
I do too, but his reasoning is flawed. Based on his reasoning that would be saying Lemmy is a third party site because it doesn’t have the user share that Reddit does.
Microsoft’s edge browser is a fork of chromium, it’s not even first party anymore, like IE was.
I don’t know about web environment integrity or where this will lead but I remember the time trusted computing and TPMs came up. At this time, people were really scared that this is the end of Linux (on PC). Today, I use secure boot (with my MOK) on my consumer distro just fine.
Had Trusted Computing happened as it was originally envisioned, you wouldn’t be. You’d be using Windows because that’s the only operating system you’d be allowed to use.
And now here we are again, facing down a plot to extinguish FOSS competition under the guise of security. Yes, it’s happened before, but that doesn’t mean the outcome is guaranteed to be as favorable as it was last time.
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